[permaculture-oceania] Re: Re: Care of spirit - a question of ethics

[Matthew Bond]

G'day Jedd,

I don't think disagreement is bad but I do think the way disagreement is
presented is vital to saving face and to avoid damaging people's egos (which
are notoriously sensitive).  The biggest problem is what constitutes proof
or evidence according to different people because if you give someone a
chance to prove their claim, what it all boils down to is what people
believe is fact and what people think is just an opinion.

Also, people who are unable to translate the feelings and concepts that are
in their head into words often just give up in frustration even when they
don't agree with the other's opinion just because they realise they are
unable to comply with the request to prove it.  When a better communicater
niggles at them to agree with them that they can't prove something, they
either disagree (thereby frustrating the better communicater) or agree to
shut the other person up!  Perhaps one day when we can communicate
telepathically, it will be possible for those people who do not have the
gift of the gab to communicate those concepts and feelings.  Then they might
be able to explain why they think what the other person thinks is opinion is
fact!

The funny thing is that people detest disagreement so much yet by focussing
on it (usually to get rid of it by persuasion/argument) the problem is
compounded and it is forgotten what the common ground actually was and the
other party becomes more and more alienated.  Look what happened with
Christianity (Catholics & Protestants) - a way of life, a culture that was
meant to be permanent ended up with people at each other's throats over a
difference of opinion.  That was very destructive.  People lost their
lives!  So yes the destructive potential is a reflection of histroy.  We may
laugh now but who knows where permaculture might be in a thousand years
etc.  Perhaps the fourth ethic should be Care of Agreement!!??  Care of
Agreement: we must focus on what we agree upon to avoid wasting energy on
the unsustainable practice of arguing! :)

If we considered Care of People as a subset of Care of Earth, that would
only highlight the fact even more that to spiritual and religious people,
there is more to the universe than the earth and the material realm.  The
way it is leaves appropriate room for interpretation.

Matthew.

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 02:06:34 +1000
> From: jedd < jedd at progsoc.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture-oceania] Re: Care of spirit - a question of
>         ethics  (jedd)
>
> Hi Matthew,
>
> Do you think disagreement (as opposed to division) is inherently
> a bad thing (or to use your term, destructive) ?
>
> Or is the destructive potential a reflection of something else?
>
> The WP comments made me think, but ultimately I concurred with
> your assessment -- at best, Care of Spirit is a subset of Care Of
> People.
>
> I suspect that Care Of People is a subset of Care Of Earth (insofar
> as we (generic, humans) are a part of the ecosystem) also.
>
> What do you think will happen when an issue arises, or more
> likely a response to one, that threatens the 'avoid argument' approach
> to/of permaculture?
>
> Jedd.
>
>
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