No subject

show a commonality ascribed to the order of things.

Known as Chi, which is the energy that flows within and without, this energy 
is the life flow inherent in all beings.
Geomagnetics is the science that deals with the effects of the earth's 
magnetic and electrical forces. Magnetics are important to the balance of 
nature.
The ancients recognised that the earth is alive with energy forces that 
pulsate across its surface.Sacred structures were located on the earth's 
energy lines. Structures like the pyramids, Gothic Cathedrals and stone 
circles are located on sites of high energetic location. There is some 
belief that the ancients knew how to dowse or could naturally feel the 
energy which I believe is still inherent in some people but lost in others 
over time. Dowsing done before settling can been seen as important to life 
wishing to live there.
Scientific research has led to a development of a planetary grid mapping 
system based upon ley locations and sacred sites.
They discovered that sites in Britain were mathematically aligned according 
to the multiples of fixed distances that formed geometrical figures.
They linked the mathematics of the Platonic Solids and Pythagorean geometry. 
This is where the rings of Gaia came from. These rings form sixty two vortex 
intersections and one hundred and twenty identical Pythagorean right angled 
triangles.
This is but a brief example of the linkages of time and the closeness of the 
workings of people from different cultures.

Feng Shui is a complex working scientific formula that stems from the 4,000 
year old geomancy and is available in many different forms. It is very 
comprehensive but most often too in depth and so it is left alone for the 
sake of safety and often ego.

I certainly do not wish to offer this as a sole need in ones life or any 
need at all, and I certainly don't want to lecture people as the information 
is there if you look hard enough. Before criticizing a subject a little 
research for ones own sake would be beneficial rather than relying on the 
words of a few.
I am offering some thought on this subject as it is a good example of the 
connections that are made through the different forms of study and knowledge 
shared by many over a long period of time.
I did mention that this is a topic best suited to a relaxed atmosphere with 
a clear mind, like around a fire or maybe the bar, or a lounge or dinner 
table.
The more you look the more you find.

Paul van G.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Russ Grayson" <info at pacific-edge.info>
To: <permaculture-oceania at lists.cat.org.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture-oceania] Feng shui, doubts (was: Ants and 
fengshui)



It is interesting to speculate why the subject of Feng Shui has created so
much discussion. It might also be interesting to ask why an Indian system
analogous to Feng Shui - Vastu, I think it is known as - has received no
mention. I can only conclude that it has not been marketed through courses
and books as has Feng Shui. It reminds me of the comment on a friend who,
meeting a colleague after some years without contact and learning that she
had enrolled in a quite expensive workshop on Feng Shui, asked why someone
would spend all that money on the workshop but not on a Permaculture course
(which was considerable cheaper, longer and arguably more comprehensive and
useful).

Nonetheless, the discussion is surely worthwhiie simply because participants
want to talk about the subject. That alone surely is sufficient
justification and it is why the listserver was set up.

The discussion raises a few points pertinent to Permaculture, now that it
offers accredited training. Prime among these is to do with how the public
perceive the design system, the language we use and the way we promote the
use of things like Feng Shui.

On 24.3.2005 8:04 PM, "Anthony Van Grieken" <avangrieken at ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

> Interesting discussion about the hemispheres at the moment in that field 
> as
> the compass school works with planetary alignments and the energies 
> received
> in conjunction with the earth's poles. The energy lines are still present 
> in
> the same places.

The existence of phenomena mentioned is not at issue - the use of language
and the way ideas are presented is. As a newspaper editor said to me when I
was starting out: "Reality does not always matter; perception does". He was
not advocating telling untruths, just suggesting that it is perception,
rather than actuality, that determines how people view things.

If practitioners of Permaculture want to be seen as credible in the
mainstream world - and the launch of accredited training says that they do -
then alluding to some undefined "planetary alignments" and "energies"
(above) will do little to achieve this. Specifically, what planets are in
alignment? How is it that a weak force such as gravity (is that the "energy"
referred to?), which is still very weak even were the entire Solar System to
be in alignment, is able to influence things?

I am not saying that there is no substance to Feng Shui, but if we want to
be comprehensible to anyone but the mystically inclined then we have to
speak in definable terms and comprehensible language. Not identifying the
energy we speak about and referring to unidentified alignments does not
achieve clear communication, it just raises questions as to what it is the
speaker is speaking about. I realise that Feng Shui practitioners cannot
define these energies in the everyday terms of popular science, so promoting
them asks people to have faith that they exist, and faith is quite a
different thing to providing evidence.

On 24.3.2005 8:14 PM, "Anthony Van Grieken" <avangrieken at ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

> It is a strange subject and is meant to look that way as the ancient 
> Chinese
> masters wanted to protect their knowledge and did this by making the whole
> subject utterly confusing and did so for many, many, years.

So, we have a knowledge-monopoly of ancient Chinese Feng Shui sages whose
behaviour is akin to that or corporations that patent plant life or of
bureaucrats protecting their territory. One wonders why they found it
necessary to "protect their knowledge" when it was supposedly so good.
Probably, to corner the market. Given the managerial nature of ancient
Chinese society (not so very different to contemporary Chinese society) they
presumably wanted to remain a power elite by holding on to their territory,
much like contemporary clergymen who retain a monopoly of divining 'God's
will'. Clearly, no room for sharing and democracy there.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:01 am, Ellen Geraghty wrote:

> ] .. lately on the subject of biodynamics which the author stated could be
defined as "spiritual science [or the use of intuition] following a 
conscious
methodology that can be followed up with rigorous thinking activity."

Everyone got that? Clear as a bell? Know exactly what Biodynamics is now?

 >>Ah, right, well, said author would probably be about as frustrating to
talk to as .. other people who misappropriate words.  I don't get the need
to redefine a perfectly functional word to suit your own pet subject / hobby
career.

 Agreed. The definition of Biodynamics offered above reminds me of the
"weasel words" and gobbledegook that Don Watson refers to in his popular
book "Death Sentence", which is all about the devitalisation of the language
by bureaucrats and others who seek to use language to obscure meaning and to
say nothing that anyone can make sense of (and to maintain positions of
power by obscuring reality). Just what is a "spiritual science"? How do you
identify and define one and what distinguishes it from a conventional
science? After all, a science can only be so if it employs scientific method
(ie. is systematic, uses experiment, observation and deduction to explain
phenomena; uses argument and demonstratable, repeatable evidence to
postulate something and to refute it).

"Conscious, methodology": By definition, any methodology must be arrived at
by conscious process as it is a process of the waking brain. Dreams and
flashes of intuition for instance, bring up ideas and insight but not method
(eg. Bohr's discovery of the structure of the atom). No methodology can be
"conscious" because consciousness is a property of life - a methodology is a
concept, not a lifeform, and has no physical existence. Method is a function
of the logical brain and is a process involving logical sequence.
"Methodology" would have sufficed as a descriptive term and would have made
the communication clearer.

>I think a lot of things make perfect sense .. once someone has worked them 
>out
and explained them to you.  Up until then, well, it's a bit like that famous
Arthur C. Clarke quote - Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.  The god of gaps is slowly driven out as the
number and size of gaps (of ignorance etc) diminish.  The people who are
saddened by this are people with something to sell, or people who haven't 
worked
it out yet (or both).

This quote of Clark's is really good for reminding us that there is much we
neither know nor comprehend; good coming from someone who is a strong
supporter of scientific method. Our culture uses science to "drive out the
god of gaps" because it offers a method of verifying that we have done so,
which works more often than not.

This is my point - if we, as permaculturists, want to influence people then
we must use clear, everyday language, define terms and concepts in simple
terms and communicate clearly, not create obscurity. - seek to explain and
enlighten rather than confuse.

In support of use of scientific method in Permaculture, may I offer this
quote: "The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as
to discover new ways of thinking about them" (Lawrence Bragg). Is
Permaculture not supposed to be about thinking creatively? About making new
interpretations of reality, of what we observe?

In support of doing something about our thinking, may I offer this quote:
"Philosophers have hitherto interpreted the world. The point, however, is to
change it" (Karl Marx).

...Russ Grayson (not a Marxist, by the way)


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