[permaculture-oceania] Re: mobile phones safe, carbon tax not

[Russ Grayson]

Thanks for your response Matthew. Yes, I know you were not trying to
polarise Permaculture opinion and, as you say, the issue is pertinent and
certainly warrants ongoing discussion if for no other reason than the
divergence in research findings.

As I said, my opinion on possible health effects is not fixed (given the
subject, I should add that I am not a constant user of my mobile but carry
it with me because of my role of contact person for a couple organisations
and because people I work with on a new community health information project
need to contact me). I go by reports of research I read and this continues
to be inconclusive though tending to the 'no adverse effect' conclusion
regarding adult mobile users and the reports I mentioned do have wide
credibility.

Nor am I a dogmatic supporter of science, however it is the prime way of
understanding the universe in our culture. I come to its defence when we
have situations like NSW Premier Iemma failing to support stem cell research
in the state (some other states take a different attitude) possibly because
of his Catholic background (nothing against Catholics - I have worked with
people of different religions and have no gripe with their spiritual
beliefs) and despite the potential health benifits of the research.

There are different ways of comprehending the world but the only one through
which 'we know that we know' - based on the ability to test hypotheses - is
the scientific method, which is why I continue to see it as credible.
Despite this attitude, I believe it is perfectly valid for individuals to
take the precautionary approach regarding the use of mobiles and to decline
their use. I prefer to carry mine in my bag when I take it with me rather
than on my belt or in my pocket.

Apart from hands-free cables, which you discuss, there are other remote
devices such as the low-powered wi-fi Bluetooth earpieces that work with
suitable mobiles. Though these still emit a radio frequency signal, it is a
lower-powered one with a range of something around three metres and may be
less intesive that some mobile calls. Mobile calls, however, vary in power
output depending on distance from repeater - the closer to a repeater you
make your call the less intense the electromaggnetic radiation emitted. I
understand that the energy exposure level fall off with the square of the
distance from you - so Dr Karen Bridgman, who commented on this issue today,
may have a good solution in using a mobile with a speaker.

...Russ Grayson


On 22/7/06 2:04 AM, "Matthew Bond" <mjbond at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Russ,
> 
> I agree my response seems to cast doubt on all research and I should clarify
> my position.  I also love technology but I have my boundaries.  I
> acknowledge the importance of scientific studies but I think our intuition
> should not be disregarded in the process.  When I was studying Electrical
> Engineering, I gained first-hand knowledge of how an experiment's results
> and conclusions could be manipulated by the inclusion or omission of a few
> minor details or how they could be innocently interpretted in two different
> ways.  I also remember observing things that 'weren't meant to happen'
> according to the demonstrator/lecturer/ textbook.   If that happened I would
> repeat the experiment.  It's not so simple for a 15 year study but I suppose
> we'll eventually find out in 100 years or so!
> 
> If there happens to be more than one study on a particular subject, I think
> we should take note of all the studies not just one of them.  If the WHO
> found no evidence that exposure to radio frequencies from transmitters
> increased a person's cancer risk then I think they weren't looking in the
> right place because I have heard of other researchers finding evidence.
> 
> Permaculture is about being inclusive and that is why I said my offering was
> food for thought.  I do not have any agenda to polarise permaculture into
> being anti-mobile phones which would disassociate a huge proportion of the
> population.  My intention was to stimulate the awareness of the issue and
> that's why I tried to stick to questions rather than statements or
> accusations because the answers can only come from the individual.  The
> answers are personal and that in turn makes the issue a personal one which
> means if you don't like the answers to those questions you can't blame me.
> :)
> 
> Matthew.
> 
> From: Russ Grayson <info at pacific-edge.info >
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture-oceania] Re: mobile phones safe, carbon tax
>>         not
>> 
>> Hi Matthew...
>> I posted that item on research into the possible health implications of
>> mobile phone use because the topic affects many on this list who use the
>> devices and is, therefore, of potential interest to them.
>> 
>> Your response seems to cast doubt on all research, which is a little
>> disheartening because it suggests that we therefore have nothing on which
>> to
>> base our decisions as societies, which leads to the conclusion that
>> planning
>> anything is a useless activity as all research findings are suspect. It
>> discredits centuries of scientific experience and by implication questions
>> 
>> the entire post-Enlightement experience of the Western world, the
>> experience
>> which allows us today to sit before these machines and communiate rapidly
>> and effectively with each other, to carry on conversations such as we are
>> presently engaged in.
>> 
>> This casts aspersions on the reputation of the researchers who conducted
>> the
>> reported research and on the journalist that reported it. But what was
>> reported was cautionary. We have to learn to distinguish between what we
>> would like to believe and what research and observation discloses. The
>> wise
>> person, when confronted with new information, changes their mind rather
>> than
>> concoct reasons why their own assumptions must be right and the
>> researchers
>> wrong.
>> 
>> Unreasonable attitudes to scientific work also contribute to the
>> anti-science agenda currently underway among medieval-like religious
>> interests and their opportunistic political hangers-on that would push us
>> into a new Dark Age where dogma, not reason, rules. They would say, of
>> course, that since all that happens is preordaned by a diety, there is no
>> reason to have anymore science or scientific research.
>> 
>> Permaculture, in such a culture-in-reverse, would not get a look in.
>> Premaculture is a product of logical, Western scientific reasoning and
>> research. But, then, I suppose you could cast aspersions on the sceintific
>> work of Dr Bill Mollison too.
>> 
>> The theme of the research - the effect of electromagnetic radiation on the
>> 
>> human body - has seen a number of research projects that have produced
>> different results, as you say. Yet highly regarded research at Adelaide
>> University a few years ago - I don't have a reference for it - as well as
>> the research that was reported continue to show no impact on adults using
>> mobile phones. And the World Health Organisation mentioned in the article
>> has an anormous volume of resources and expertise at its disposal and is
>> highly regarded.
>> 
>> I have no opinion of the effect of mobile phone emissions and, like many
>> others, would like a clear consensus to emerge. Meantime, all I have is
>> the
>> research on which to base my decisions. But the only way we can possibly
>> get
>> that research is through the ethical and proper employment of scientific
>> method - we cannot divine this information with a pointed stick.
>> 
>> Mobile phones - and laptops and iPods and PDAs (personal digital
>> assistants
>> - those handheld computers you see people writing into with their styli) -
>> have rapidly become a part of the culture because they allow people to
>> either:
>> 1. do new things
>> 2. or to improve what they already do.
>> 
>> These tools are properly regarded as what anthropologists would describe
>> as
>> 'cultural artefacts' of industrial cultures as well an an increasing
>> number
>> of people in developing countries. For many people they are enabling
>> technologies. They are prevasive - walking into town I see people in the
>> park, laptops open, wi-fi antennas attached, communicating or obtaining
>> information. A coffee shop I go to offers wi-fi conenction as do some town
>> 
>> centres, everywhere are people plugged into iPods, some listening to
>> music,
>> some to downloaded Podcast radio documentaries, others perhaps using them
>> as
>> study tools. In short, digital technologies are now integrated into our
>> societies.
>> 
>> And what about their relation to Permaculture, as you ask? Well, if
>> Permaculture disregards them and the younger demographic that has
>> integrated
>> them into their lives, then Permaculture is the loser. As any businessman
>> knows, you have to go where the market is and, for Permaculture's market,
>> if
>> that means coming to terms about how digital devices can be used to
>> support
>> sustainable development.
>> 
>> Another point about mobiles, laptops, iPods and PDAs and let's throw
>> digital
>> still and video cameras into that, especially those embedded into mobile
>> phones - they are all mobile communications technologies - is that they
>> give
>> to the motivated individual the power of partipating in a great global
>> conversation and allow individuals and community organisations to become
>> media producers rather than simply media consumers. That includes
>> Permaculture groups and that, surely, is politically and socially
>> important.
>> 
>> I might come across as a techno-booster, but I'm not. My attitude is that
>> we
>> should make use of these devices to promulgate our message. These devices
>> are tools, just as shovels and garden forks are tools, just like the lead
>> pencil was, just like books. So, let's have Permaculture Podcasts and
>> Permaculture videos for our iPods (I note such devices now come with some
>> mobile phones), Permaculture literature as e-books for our laptops and
>> PDAs
>> (and out mobile phones too), clever websites for rapid access to
>> sustainability information accessible by laptop and mobile and SMS alerts
>> on
>> mobiles for Permaculture networks.
>> 
>> ...Russ Grayson
>> 
>> 
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PO Box 1045, Manly, NSW 1655 AUSTRALIA
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