[permaculture-oceania] Re:A Must See - An Inconenient Truth -MoreWays Than One

Sun Oct 1 11:36:44 EST 2006

The Northern Rivers pc group ran a pc open garden series to raise funds for
APC-7. Promotion logistics would be different in Sydney - we had great
support from local media - was key to success, but there weren't email lists
then either so think it worth pursuing.

ABC open gardens selections for 2007-08 have closed - there's a long lead
time but excellent examples should register interest for the following
round.

Ciao Robyn

On 29/9/06 3:31 PM, "Gordon, Sue" <Sue.Gordon at det.nsw.edu.au> wrote:

> That is a good point that David has suggested.  I have been thinking
> about if we can run "permaculture open garden scheme"  ie showcasing
> what some  people have achieved in their backyards/properties.  We could
> pick a month eg November when things should be growing well, and get a
> whole lot of gardens on the list, so we can blitz and offer the venue,
> or alternatively for next year, actually put the gardens into the Open
> Garden Scheme, perhaps asking Peter Cundall or Jerry Coleby from
> Gardening Australia for advice?
> 
> This with fresh scones, jam from the garden and cream (well from the
> supermarket--opps) would demonstrate how lovely it is to sit in your
> garden proudly looking at your growing things
> 
> We could have a map of each place, demonstrating zones, and permaculture
> principles, eg stacking, local production, as well as small talks.
> 
> Sue 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-oceania-bounces at lists.cat.org.au
> [mailto:permaculture-oceania-bounces at lists.cat.org.au] On Behalf Of
> david fonteyn
> Sent: Wednesday, 27 September 2006 11:13 AM
> To: permaculture-oceania at lists.cat.org.au
> Subject: RE: [permaculture-oceania] Re:A Must See - An Inconenient Truth
> -MoreWays Than One
> 
> I think we need to go beyond the fear and the guilt. These emotions are
> too 
> destructive and I feel movies like Al Gore's will only increase fear and
> 
> guilt and hence play into the hands of multinationals and global
> capital's 
> endless war.
> 
> Window scenarios (eg. 10 years, 20 years) it seems to me are imaginary
> figures plucked from the air. Realistically, global warming, peak oil,
> desertification, biodiversity loss, is all happening and will continue.
> It's 
> not going to be stopped in a mere ten years.
> 
> The environment movement, in all its umbrellas, such as permaculture and
> 
> ecovillages need to focus on and develop 'the good life'. We are all
> looking 
> for the good life and most of us have simply accepted what the society
> through television, newspapers, magazines and literature have told us it
> is. 
> This life, it seems to me is what is perpetuating the environmental
> crisis 
> we face as we are more and more alienated from the natural world and
> each 
> other. Any steps to reversing this alienation and building real and
> lasting 
> links to the environment around us and the communities we live in is the
> 
> path we should be working on. Although there are sacrifices in this way
> of 
> being - for example some freedoms and the stigma of being different from
> the 
> norm - the benefits of a better, more enriched and meaningful life far
> outweigh them. The meaning, I believe, of the environmental crisis is a
> wake 
> up call to return to interconnectedness.
> 
> We don't need technology for this, or capital. In fact, they are what's
> in 
> the way.
> 
> Ultimately, I believe the only thing we can do is prepare for a future
> of 
> catastrophe. Strengthening connections to our communities and the
> natural 
> environment around us, understanding how the ecology works now (so that
> we 
> will understand how it is as it changes) and our place within it, will
> stand 
> us in better shape for dealing with a greenhouse world. This is not to
> say 
> that technology and design etc. are not important. But they are not the
> fundamental work we need to do.
> 
> David Fonteyn
> 
>> From: Mitra Ardron <mitra at mitra.biz>
>> Reply-To: permaculture-oceania <permaculture-oceania at lists.cat.org.au>
>> To: permaculture-oceania <permaculture-oceania at lists.cat.org.au>
>> CC: Tom Duncan <greenheart at bigpond.com>
>> Subject: [permaculture-oceania] Re:A Must See - An Inconenient Truth
> -More 
>> Ways Than One
>> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:58:20 +1000
>> 
>> I agree with Tom that "Inconvenent Truth" and Peak Oil should be a wake
> up 
>> call for Permies,
>> 
>> The question is whether permies can become a credible part of the
> solution.
>> 
>> Permaculture is great on design, and the systems (sometimes) work, but
>> permaculture hasn't really offered a viable solution in terms of
>> interfacing with the vast masses of people out there in the suburbs.
>> 
>> The challenge is NOT the systems, we know how to do this,  the
> challenge is 
>> the human-systems, the training, the support, the financials.
>> 
>> I had dinner with David Holmgren earlier this year, after his talk on
> the 
>> suburbs. I have no doubt that his suggestions would work, I have lots
> of 
>> doubt in the ability of getting the designs in place. As I said to
> David I 
>> believe that the crash won't be as severe as he thinks (so there is a
> risk 
>> of being treated like another Y2K false-alarm), but more importantly
> that 
>> Permaculture does not - as its currently working - have a solution.
>> 
>> Permaculture has NOT proved that it can provide designs, and
> appropriate 
>> training that will actually attract enough people to have any impact at
> all 
>> on either Global Warming or Peak Oil.  Permaculture - as I 've said
> before 
>> on this list - is presented as an all or nothing approach, rather than
> as 
>> something incremental.  Where are the coaches and trainers that will
> help 
>> people convert their land, where are those who will help people fix it
> when 
>> they break. Where are the simpler easy to use guides that really help
>> people put a toe in.
>> 
>> On the bigger scale, where are the commercial successful permaculture
> farms 
>> that can produce enough of a surplus to feed a substantial quantity of
>> their neighbors? (ReGenesis is one example, but I don't know of any
>> others).
>> 
>> On the Eco-Village scale, again we see more failures than successes.
> I've 
>> heard more negativity than positivity about Aldinga and Crystal Waters
>> (from its residents as well as from outsiders). Do either of these, or
> any 
>> others produce a food surplus, or an energy surplus?
>> 
>> Even here in the Northern Rivers, home of permaculture. I know of more
>> permaculture failures than successes.  I see more abandoned swales than
> 
>> working ones, more cardboard messes than food forests.
>> 
>> Lets take this as a wake up call to get our own human systems in place
> so 
>> that permaculture has a chance of offering an alternative. Lets make
> sure 
>> that at least some of our models are viable and copyable, and lets make
> 
>> sure we have some training methods that have a chance of working if a
>> substantial portion of the population wanted to grow their own food.
>> 
>> - Mitra
>> 
>> At 1:35 AM +1000 21/9/06, Tom Duncan wrote:
>>> I agree that Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" movie is a must see.
>>> ..................Serveral of my interlocking points being, that there
> are 
>>> trillions of dollars floating around, to invest, but few
>>> people/organisations has the investment vehicle it seems to invest in,
> as 
>>> permies seem afraid of the investment scene and lone permaculture
>>> designers are out there free lancing to design ecovillages in ways
> that I 
>>> feel are generally inadequate re. energy descent and future shocks...
>>> etc.. and subject to client whims of cost cutting and oil/coal system
>>> reliance.  .................... I agree, but there is the intractable
>>> issue that we have a 10 year window of opportunity to revolutionise
> the 
>>> way our energy is used and patterned, and if ecovillages are what they
> are 
>>> today - with crappy solar systems that took more energy to build them
> than 
>>> are ever recovered, with toxic materials in batteries - who is calling
> 
>>> this green, completely reliant on oil/coal system? Is that what an
>>> ecovillage is meant to be? .....Well, I guess the Bega
> Eco-Neighbourhood
>>> is an example of the community coming together and getting ethical
>>> investment funds to move towards those ideals permaculture has been
>>> extolling for some time now. I was hopeful that the BEND model of
>>> community coming together and developing and ecovillage/
> eco-neighbourhood
>>> could become a new model of community acting as developer, but what
> the 
>>> process has revealed to me, is that most people like me are outpriced,
> for 
>>> a tiny block 14 metres wide, selling for over $115,000. Then the solar
> 
>>> installation at about $20,000 per block and hooking up to the gas
> mains 
>>> another couple of grand per block.............My question is: what is
> the 
>>> role of an investment vehicle that made up of and by permaculture
>>> designers, pumping out ecovillage developments like a rabbits.....
> that 
>>> have true sustainble energy and technology at their mainframe design?
> and 
>>> what would it look like? .....As the intellectual property of
> ecovillage 
>>> design is collectively owned by permaculture designers, and therefore
> a 
>>> body that represents that to the commercial world, will be i a good
>>> position to leverage capital to invest in permaculture ecovillages. It
> all 
>>> takes money, to buy land, subdivide, put in infrastructure, as the
> Bega 
>>> Eco-Neighbourhood Development has proven. And lengthy delays due to
> grey 
>>> water council issues push up prices... what will be the next model?
>> 
>>  (note deleted a lot of this post (and in particular some stuff about
>> biodigesters)
>> 
>> --
>> Mitra Ardron:  Natural Innovation
>> home/office +61-2-6684-8096  mobile +61-414-648-722  mitra at mitra.biz
>> www.naturalinnovation.org and Blog: www.mitra.biz/blog
>> skype: mitra_earth
>> 
>> Life is a Mystery to be Lived, not a Problem to be Solved
>> 
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