[permaculture-oceania] Re:A Must See - An Inconenient Truth-MoreWays Than One

[Ian Lillington]

thanks for the enthusiasm, Sue

Josh Byrne is probably the from person

Ian (not David)



-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-oceania-bounces at lists.cat.org.au
[mailto:permaculture-oceania-bounces at lists.cat.org.au]On Behalf Of
Gordon, Sue
Sent: Friday, 29 September 2006 3:32 PM
To: permaculture-oceania
Subject: RE: [permaculture-oceania] Re:A Must See - An Inconenient
Truth-MoreWays Than One


That is a good point that David has suggested.  I have been thinking
about if we can run "permaculture open garden scheme"  ie showcasing
what some  people have achieved in their backyards/properties.  We could
pick a month eg November when things should be growing well, and get a
whole lot of gardens on the list, so we can blitz and offer the venue,
or alternatively for next year, actually put the gardens into the Open
Garden Scheme, perhaps asking Peter Cundall or Jerry Coleby from
Gardening Australia for advice?

This with fresh scones, jam from the garden and cream (well from the
supermarket--opps) would demonstrate how lovely it is to sit in your
garden proudly looking at your growing things

We could have a map of each place, demonstrating zones, and permaculture
principles, eg stacking, local production, as well as small talks.  

Sue 


-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-oceania-bounces at lists.cat.org.au
[mailto:permaculture-oceania-bounces at lists.cat.org.au] On Behalf Of
david fonteyn
Sent: Wednesday, 27 September 2006 11:13 AM
To: permaculture-oceania at lists.cat.org.au
Subject: RE: [permaculture-oceania] Re:A Must See - An Inconenient Truth
-MoreWays Than One

I think we need to go beyond the fear and the guilt. These emotions are
too 
destructive and I feel movies like Al Gore's will only increase fear and

guilt and hence play into the hands of multinationals and global
capital's 
endless war.

Window scenarios (eg. 10 years, 20 years) it seems to me are imaginary 
figures plucked from the air. Realistically, global warming, peak oil, 
desertification, biodiversity loss, is all happening and will continue.
It's 
not going to be stopped in a mere ten years.

The environment movement, in all its umbrellas, such as permaculture and

ecovillages need to focus on and develop 'the good life'. We are all
looking 
for the good life and most of us have simply accepted what the society 
through television, newspapers, magazines and literature have told us it
is. 
This life, it seems to me is what is perpetuating the environmental
crisis 
we face as we are more and more alienated from the natural world and
each 
other. Any steps to reversing this alienation and building real and
lasting 
links to the environment around us and the communities we live in is the

path we should be working on. Although there are sacrifices in this way
of 
being - for example some freedoms and the stigma of being different from
the 
norm - the benefits of a better, more enriched and meaningful life far 
outweigh them. The meaning, I believe, of the environmental crisis is a
wake 
up call to return to interconnectedness.

We don't need technology for this, or capital. In fact, they are what's
in 
the way.

Ultimately, I believe the only thing we can do is prepare for a future
of 
catastrophe. Strengthening connections to our communities and the
natural 
environment around us, understanding how the ecology works now (so that
we 
will understand how it is as it changes) and our place within it, will
stand 
us in better shape for dealing with a greenhouse world. This is not to
say 
that technology and design etc. are not important. But they are not the 
fundamental work we need to do.

David Fonteyn

>From: Mitra Ardron <mitra at mitra.biz>
>Reply-To: permaculture-oceania <permaculture-oceania at lists.cat.org.au>
>To: permaculture-oceania <permaculture-oceania at lists.cat.org.au>
>CC: Tom Duncan <greenheart at bigpond.com>
>Subject: [permaculture-oceania] Re:A Must See - An Inconenient Truth
-More 
>	Ways Than One
>Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:58:20 +1000
>
>I agree with Tom that "Inconvenent Truth" and Peak Oil should be a wake
up 
>call for Permies,
>
>The question is whether permies can become a credible part of the
solution.
>
>Permaculture is great on design, and the systems (sometimes) work, but 
>permaculture hasn't really offered a viable solution in terms of 
>interfacing with the vast masses of people out there in the suburbs.
>
>The challenge is NOT the systems, we know how to do this,  the
challenge is 
>the human-systems, the training, the support, the financials.
>
>I had dinner with David Holmgren earlier this year, after his talk on
the 
>suburbs. I have no doubt that his suggestions would work, I have lots
of 
>doubt in the ability of getting the designs in place. As I said to
David I 
>believe that the crash won't be as severe as he thinks (so there is a
risk 
>of being treated like another Y2K false-alarm), but more importantly
that 
>Permaculture does not - as its currently working - have a solution.
>
>Permaculture has NOT proved that it can provide designs, and
appropriate 
>training that will actually attract enough people to have any impact at
all 
>on either Global Warming or Peak Oil.  Permaculture - as I 've said
before 
>on this list - is presented as an all or nothing approach, rather than
as 
>something incremental.  Where are the coaches and trainers that will
help 
>people convert their land, where are those who will help people fix it
when 
>they break. Where are the simpler easy to use guides that really help 
>people put a toe in.
>
>On the bigger scale, where are the commercial successful permaculture
farms 
>that can produce enough of a surplus to feed a substantial quantity of 
>their neighbors? (ReGenesis is one example, but I don't know of any 
>others).
>
>On the Eco-Village scale, again we see more failures than successes.
I've 
>heard more negativity than positivity about Aldinga and Crystal Waters 
>(from its residents as well as from outsiders). Do either of these, or
any 
>others produce a food surplus, or an energy surplus?
>
>Even here in the Northern Rivers, home of permaculture. I know of more 
>permaculture failures than successes.  I see more abandoned swales than

>working ones, more cardboard messes than food forests.
>
>Lets take this as a wake up call to get our own human systems in place
so 
>that permaculture has a chance of offering an alternative. Lets make
sure 
>that at least some of our models are viable and copyable, and lets make

>sure we have some training methods that have a chance of working if a 
>substantial portion of the population wanted to grow their own food.
>
>- Mitra
>
>At 1:35 AM +1000 21/9/06, Tom Duncan wrote:
>>I agree that Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" movie is a must see. 
>>..................Serveral of my interlocking points being, that there
are 
>>trillions of dollars floating around, to invest, but few 
>>people/organisations has the investment vehicle it seems to invest in,
as 
>>permies seem afraid of the investment scene and lone permaculture 
>>designers are out there free lancing to design ecovillages in ways
that I 
>>feel are generally inadequate re. energy descent and future shocks... 
>>etc.. and subject to client whims of cost cutting and oil/coal system 
>>reliance.  .................... I agree, but there is the intractable 
>>issue that we have a 10 year window of opportunity to revolutionise
the 
>>way our energy is used and patterned, and if ecovillages are what they
are 
>>today - with crappy solar systems that took more energy to build them
than 
>>are ever recovered, with toxic materials in batteries - who is calling

>>this green, completely reliant on oil/coal system? Is that what an 
>>ecovillage is meant to be? .....Well, I guess the Bega
Eco-Neighbourhood 
>>is an example of the community coming together and getting ethical 
>>investment funds to move towards those ideals permaculture has been 
>>extolling for some time now. I was hopeful that the BEND model of 
>>community coming together and developing and ecovillage/
eco-neighbourhood 
>>could become a new model of community acting as developer, but what
the 
>>process has revealed to me, is that most people like me are outpriced,
for 
>>a tiny block 14 metres wide, selling for over $115,000. Then the solar

>>installation at about $20,000 per block and hooking up to the gas
mains 
>>another couple of grand per block.............My question is: what is
the 
>>role of an investment vehicle that made up of and by permaculture 
>>designers, pumping out ecovillage developments like a rabbits.....
that 
>>have true sustainble energy and technology at their mainframe design?
and 
>>what would it look like? .....As the intellectual property of
ecovillage 
>>design is collectively owned by permaculture designers, and therefore
a 
>>body that represents that to the commercial world, will be i a good 
>>position to leverage capital to invest in permaculture ecovillages. It
all 
>>takes money, to buy land, subdivide, put in infrastructure, as the
Bega 
>>Eco-Neighbourhood Development has proven. And lengthy delays due to
grey 
>>water council issues push up prices... what will be the next model?
>
>  (note deleted a lot of this post (and in particular some stuff about 
>biodigesters)
>
>--
>Mitra Ardron:  Natural Innovation
>home/office +61-2-6684-8096  mobile +61-414-648-722  mitra at mitra.biz
>www.naturalinnovation.org and Blog: www.mitra.biz/blog
>skype: mitra_earth
>
>Life is a Mystery to be Lived, not a Problem to be Solved
>
>_______________________________________________
>permaculture-oceania mailing list
>permaculture-oceania at lists.cat.org.au
>http://lists.cat.org.au/mailman/listinfo/permaculture-oceania


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