[permaculture-oceania] Re: Cuba discussion

Mon Sep 18 14:15:02 EST 2006

Instead of eliding the discussion by reference to supposed ancient history, you might have got the point. Whereas I work in a capitalist society, and receive money from a company for my work, what I do with my money and time is directed, not at supporing that system, but at changing it into something more equitable and just. (Sure, I am 'associated' with Green Left. Does that make me any less correct, however..?). Take the cuban example again - to undermine your own logic. It took money from the soviet union, yet was critical of the USSR, and went against the Soviets' often expressly declared foreign policy. This distinguishes Cuba clearly from, say, Poland, or Mongolia, who did not. 

  RSF, by contrast, take the money, and dance the tune as well...
  http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9713
  It is the combination of taking the money, and following the political diktats of the paying entity as well, that make the questions more concrete surrounding RSF's purpose.

  You ask is Cuba so insecure that it cannot tolerate dissidents. I have made it clear that dissidents are free to walk the streets of Cuba, to hold meetings for the purpose of dissenting, for organising mass signature campaigns (the Varela Project), and so forth. What Cuba does not tolerate are people who break its laws by taking money to do the work of a foreign power. You may disagree with whether that should be the law, but that is what it is. And that is the basis on which these people were charged and convicted.

  My points on socialism were predicated on the need for global social change - I was actually saying that the limitations of a socialist revolution only on one island was a key reason why certain deformations in its development are unavoidable. That is that my "theoretically evolved Cuban state" could not, indeed, be acheived without major geopolitical changes. Neither, therefore, can your demands on Cuba be met either, until US policy in particular towards Cuba undergoes a radical change.

  I have taken up the issue of Cuban press briefly in another post, but my point was the very opposite of saying there was an uncritical press - I was talking about the existence of media in Cuba that is not dictated to by the needs of corporate profit margins - which is the type of "independent" media RSF supports.

  On the topic of a post-Fidel Cuba, I'm not going to go into all the speculation that has been thrown around for the past 15 years. I will say, however, that I'm fairly confident that there won't be much change, and certainly nothing like in the East Bloc. My point again rests on the fact that while most people lump Cuba in with the old soviet bloc, it was, from the very beginning, a very different creature, on the guard against bureaucracy (not always successfully, sure), and based on real popular support.

  One has only to look at the cuban electoral system to see the difference. While Cuba is a "one-party" state, unlike in the East Bloc, election to governing bodies is not dependent upon membership of the Communist Party. In fact, party membership is not allowed to be used as a reason for election, and the party is forbidden from campaigning.
  Members of the various assemblies are elected from local communities (between 200-1200 electors), based upon their community and social work. Anyone over 16 can be elected, and all representatives can be (and often are) instantly recallable. Once again, I recommend Isaac Saney's "Cuba: A Revolution In Motion" as a good, informative, yet critical study of the cuban system, especially, over the past 15 years.

  regards,

  Duroyan

  PS it is also worth mentioning that public sentiment in East Germany was for a form of democratic socialism (in opposition to the repressive form they had at the time), but what movement there was was weak and poorly organised (due to the repression, oddly enough), and East Germany was absorbed by the West in a type of modern-day "Anschluss".

Russ Grayson <info at pacific-edge.info> wrote:
  Interesting stuff Terry.

I intended to respond to an earlier posting to continue the conversation
we've been having around Cuba on oceania, but the email from that respondent
has been accidentally deleted.

I raised the treatment of oppositional writers in Cuba and their
imprisonment and the Reporters Without Borders campaign on their behalf. The
respondent - I got the idea from somewhere that he's associated with the
socialist paper, Green Left (apologies if untrue) - implied they were
counter-revolutionaries and had accepted funds from the US and deserved
imprisonment. He also said Reporters Without Borders accepted funds from
some organisation - that was lost with his email - and I assume he implied
that this compromised the organisation.

Two comments on the above. One, is the Cuban government so insecure that it
has to imprison critics, were even some to be paid by the US? And is there
any independent evidence that the US finded them? Other than from the Cuban
government, that is.

Second, Reporters Without Borders. It is an organisation greatly respected
by media workers ecause of its woork on their behalf. Without the
respondent's email I can't comment on his allegations about the organisation
he mentions, however, in general, does receiving financial support of
someone imply support for their policies? Does the Byron Bay Writers
Festival's receipt of support from Becton imply support for their
development activities? Doubt it. I am sometimes paid for project work in
the South Pacific by funds from the Australian Government, from an agency
that is supporting military peace enforcement and security operations in the
Solomons - AusAID - but that does not necessarily imply my support for of
Canberra's policies .

Then there's the Permaculture movement. Are Permaculture designers paid by
local government of other state agencies guilty of complicity with those
organisation's policies aand practices?

If I am correct that the respondent is linked to Green Left and Resistance,
the Leftist organisation it is a publication of, then in that organisation's
early days (decades ago) one of the triumverate that formed its leadership
invested funds in News Limited in an attempt (failed, I believe) to secure
income for the organisation. To use the logic our respondent applies to
Reporters Without Borders, Resistance must therefore support (then, at
least) the political agenda of News Limited and its chair, Rupert Murdoch.

We can see that attempts to smear organisations that politicos disagree with
because of the sources of their support and funding backfires.

The only disagreement about Cuba we have is over its treatment of
oppositionists. He menioned there is a tolerated opposition and that is
good. Also, the drive for food self-reliance is commendable and would be
worthwhile for study in the West to draw lessons from it. I also agree with
the respondent that the cause of so many of the problems with that island
state is the attitude of the US government, however Washington, Republican
or Democrat, has to pay back the political support of Cuban exiles and this
would make a policy change difficult.

There was also something about the evolution of the Cuban socialist state to
a stage in which government by the people would be so developed that a
independent media became unnecessary. Now, Terry, you and I have been around
long enough to know that a state without an independent voice to monitor its
affairs is a somewhat alarming idea which, at extremes, becomes totalitarian
and dimishes diversity. We have examples. And, could it actually be called a
state? Karl Marx, after all, proposed the withering away of the state in
such conditions - ie. the state apparatus would cease to exist (I don't know
whether this relates to your idea below of the 'anarchist gift economy').
Leon Trotsky, however, responded that socialism in one state was not
possible, which implies that our respondent's theoretically evolved Cuban
state could never be realised.

I wonder about the consequences of repression of dissidents and the
perceptions associated with this in Cuba. Will the eventual passing of
government to Raoul Castro, then to his successor, release those energies of
resentment we saw with the destruction of the Berlin Wall and the collapse
of the Eastern Bloc, resentment at the repressive state that brought not the
development of a social democracy or even of a democratic socialism akin to
that proposed by Alexander Dubchek in Chzekoslovalia in 1968 (crushed by
Soviet tanks and the Red army - the respondent's organisation opposed the
Soviets on that occasion) but of an embracing of capitalism? And will Cuba,
were that to happen, fall into civil conflict - for Castro has many
supporters because his policies have benifited many Cubans - and become like
Russia with so much of the market economy contolled by mafiosi and criminal
gangs? Russia might have signified a failure of single-party state
socialism, but it also signified a failure of the open market economy.

Thanks to all for their comments on this subject.

...Russ Grayson

On 14/9/06 3:41 PM, "Terry Leahy" wrote:

> Dear Permies, 
> 
> This is a very salutary reminder of what is wrong with state socialism as an
> alternative to capitalist society. The kind of waste of enterprise and
> efficiency that is inherent in alienated labour - where you work for a wage
> and someone tells you what to do - is kept under control in capitalism by the
> huge rewards to the owners of the means of production for controlling their
> workforce and making them work even when they are resentful and bored stiff.
> In a socialist economy this control is absent. Reward is not proportional to
> market efficiency and competitive production outcomes. The inefficiency and
> lack of enthusiasm that is also part of capitalist economies really gets
> going. This is a huge problem from an environmentalist perspective because all
> this wasted energy is often wasted resources. As well, the system means that
> people still see large consumption incomes as the ultimate compensation for a
> life of forced labour and hope to be lucky enough to achieve this - through
> the tourist economy; through emigration; through a very highly paid and
> corrupt professional position. It is the capitalist nightmare waiting to
> happen as soon as the lid is pulled off the political situation. None of this
> is very environmentally positive - the rewards of consumption always seem like
> the best thing to be had if you spend your working day being ordered about and
> bored out of your brain. That is why we need to move to an anarchist gift
> economy to really solve the environmental problems that are so intrinsic to
> capitalism,
> 
> Terry
> 
>>>> Tom Duncan Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:50 am
>>>> >>>
> Hello Permies,
> A German friend of mine has been living and studying in Cuba for 9 months,
> and he sent through this socio-economic evaluation the other day, of how he
> sees Cuba. I thought it would contribute to the Cuba discussions.
> Tom
> Economy in Cuba
> Posted by: "Kjell Kühne"
> Tue Sep 5, 2006 5:13 pm (PST)
> Dear friends,
> 
> after spending 9 months in Cuba I would like to share with you a
> general evaluation of what living in the country is like and what the
> Cuban Revolution has achieved and which are its shortcomings. One of
> the reasons I wanted to go to Cuba to do my (psychology) internship
> was to learn about socialism in Cuba and how it works in our days. I
> think I have learned a lot about that and this is my account for now.
> 
> I will divide it into three parts/mails: economic, sociopolitical and
> cultural development.
> 
> Here comes the first:
> 
> Economy
> 
> There are two dimensions to an economy: the general size and the
> equality how goods are distributed.
> Cuba is very big on the equality dimension. Almost all Cuban have a
> similar level. They all have access to the basic things, and hardly
> anyone has access to expensive things (cars, international trips,
> computers) out of their own efforts. The only ways to get those
> things are through family or friends from other countries or by
> getting an opportunity to be sent on a mission to work abroad and
> earn "hard" currencies. This is possible for some doctors, professors
> and other professionals that take part in internationalist projects
> of cooperation between the Cuban government and other countries.
> 
> Basic needs
> 
> I once read on a big sign "In this world thousands of children sleep
> in the streets each night. - None of them is Cuban." And I believe
> that it is true. In Cuba most people have most of their basic needs
> met: food, housing, clothes, access to health services. Cuba being
> basically a poor third-world country that is a big achievement. If
> you look at the indicators of Human Development, Cuba is far ahead of
> other countries with a similar economic level.
> 
> Low Motivation
> 
> But there is a curse on the typical socialist economy. People earn
> their salary if they do a good job. And if they don't, well, they
> just earn their salary just the same. That is a big stopper for
> motivation. Why should you make an effort if the financial result is
> just the same as whithout effort? In Cuba it feels like a pleasant
> surprise when you see someone who does his work in a motivated and
> dedicated way. Most people are quite lethargic at work, but quick in
> sending you to someone else.
> 
> Surviving economically
> 
> Another fact is that official salaries are too low to survive on
> them. With the 250-450 Pesos Cubanos (9-16 Euros) that every normal
> Cuban earns in his official job, he cannot survive. The subsidized
> food they can buy with the so-called "libreta" - a little booklet
> where you get a mark once you bought what corresponds to you - is
> enough for about half the month. For the other half of the month they
> have to find ways/money. A standard way is to take home some of the
> products you are managing in your job. You sell them or simply eat
> them. It is seen as normal. Everybody knows the necessity. As long as
> you don't steal too much, and there doesn't happen to be an anti-
> corruption campaign, you won't have problems. Those who don't handle
> any products in their job have to find other ways. Cubans call
> that "inventar". They are the kings of "inventing" ways to make a
> living. It ranges from selling fruits or home-made candy in the
> streets to giving private lessons or cleaning and washing for more
> affluent neighbours (usually those who have family abroad).
> 
> But these informal, mostly illegal activities are just accepted
> because they are necessary for the people to survive. Who earns good
> money will spend it on better food. But it is very rare to see anyone
> making a fortune. As soon as it becomes obvious that someone has a
> lot of money, people become jealous and it is likely that some party
> institution starts investigating whether there is anything illegal
> going on. Since practically all the Cubans are involved in some kind
> of illegal activity, it is better to keep a low profile.
> 
> So there is economic equality in Cuba, but it is somewhat imposed and
> comes at the cost of hampering the motivation of almost all parts of
> the economy.
> 
> Macro-Economy
> 
> Before the 1990s Cuba was like the spoilt child of the socialist
> camp. They profited from subsidies (or very favourable terms of
> trade) from the Soviet Union that accounted for a considerable part
> of the economy. After the Soviet Union and the whole socialist camp
> broke down, Cuba had to wake up. The so-called "periodo especial"
> initiated. Cuba was now really left alone. There wasn't even enough
> food for the people and many suffered hunger. A friend of mine who is
> about 1,50m tall says she stayed small, because she was so unlucky to
> go through the periodo especial in her adolescence. Cuba had to start
> producing its own food and look for sources of money in hard
> currencies. One of them is tourism, which has increased a lot since
> then. As you could read in one of my former mails, there is now a
> split in the economy: the normal economy in Cuban Pesos and the
> tourist/dollar economy. (Although the dollar is now practically
> eliminated and you have to pay a kind of fine when changing it.) This
> brought money to Cuba but also negative energy: envy, prostitution
> and a system that is almost like an "apartheid": there are many
> places where Cubans can't go, because they can't pay or simply
> because they aren't allowed in. Some foods that Cuba produces, like
> beef are almost exclusively for tourists and sale in Convertible
> Pesos (the Cuban equivalent to foreign currency).
> 
> The US Embargo
> 
> Maybe you have heard about the embargo. Since the early sixties the
> USA imposed a commercial embargo on Cuba, meaning that companies are
> prohibited to do business with Cuba if they want to operate in the
> United States and that no ship can enter US ports, if it has been to
> Cuba. For US citizens it is illegal to go to Cuba and they may face
> heavy fines if they get caught. Many go there anyway, but they have
> to go through Cancun in Mexico, they cannot fly directly. The embargo
> makes the difficult economic situation more difficult. But at the
> same time it also serves Fidel to blame the US for the weak economy.
> The embargo has been repeatedly condemned by the United Nations, but
> because there are many exiled Cubans in Florida (who were
> expropriated by the Cuban Revolution and hate Fidel Castro) who are
> now US citizens and voters, the embargo has not been lifted.
> 
> Education
> 
> Another paradox of Cuba is found in the field of education. The Cuban
> Revolution has effectively succeeded in guaranteeing free education
> for everyone. All kids go to elementary school and if you want to and
> have good grades, you can study at university. So, a dream for many
> poor people in this world has come true in Cuba: free education for
> everyone up to university level. But here comes the paradox:
> everybody can get a good education, but it doesn't help! A doctor or
> an engineer earns less than a brick-layer (the lowest occupation here
> in Mexico) or some guy who sells pizza or who collects the money on a
> private truck (used like buses; both of these jobs are part of the
> informal economy). And after a long workday he still has to think
> about how to get some extra-money to feed his family! Many highly
> educated people are interested in emigrating to have their education
> pay. But that is not at all easy.
> 
> I just found out that at www.wikipedia.org you can read about these
> things in more detail. So if you are really interested, take a look!
> 
> Take care, wherever you are!
> 
> with greetings from San Cristobal,
> 
> Kjell 
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For the millions, not the millionaires! 
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