[Pil-pc-oceania] Human nutrients & Toilets & greywater systems

Wed Apr 18 13:04:19 EST 2007

Joel, Graeme and all,

The basic elements of the Biolytix that Joel described are very similar to
the 'Worm Farm Waste System" that is also commercially available.  In that
case I understand they use what they describe as 'special screens' rather
than a layer of something like onion bags full of onion bags [Joel's
description of the Biolytix base layer] as the base to catch and hold the
solids while they decompose.

Conventional septic systems can be converted to this setup. Worm Farm Waste
Systems offer to do this.

The septic needs to have suitable screens and base layer of non degradable
material set up at, say, 1/2 or 2/3 height inside the tank, and a new outlet
close to the base of the tank.  This new outlet may be problematic for
gravity draining systems, requiring a much deeper trench and substantial
fall in the land to allow the drain to resurface downhill.  Many systems on
flatter land these days have a pump well and submersible pump already
installed after the septic tank, so it is just a matter of getting the
septic to drain from its base to the pump well.

The difference between Biolytix, the Worm Farm Waste System, and the home
septic tank conversion described above is in the degree to which regulatory
concerns have been satisfied, and the extent to which potentially poor or
lack of management by the householder has been designed out of the
arrangement.  I don't know every detail of the commercial systems, but I
suspect that a well set-up and managed home septic tank conversion is
capable of producing waste water just as well treated as the commercial
systems.

I agree that the basic form of this technology passes the 'appropriate' test
for a remote village, and it is potentially a very cost effective retrofit
of existing septic systems.  Where water toilets already exist, passing
stored irrigation water through the water toilet, and carrying the nutrients
safely to, say, fruit trees, is a good way to make the best of this
situation.

The disadvantage of the water toilet in this example is not the use of
water, which may be being sent to those fruit trees anyway, but the loss of
control of the use, and the timing of the use, of the nutrients.  I would be
reluctant to use this waste water on vegetable gardens, for example, just as
a precaution.  A bucket toilet, with follow up composting, gives much more
control and choice over how those nutrients are used.

By the way, health inspectors very very rarely return to inspect septic
systems after their initial approval, especially if they are functioning
well and not causing any complaints.  And even an inspection is only likely
to be superficial, checking that there are no surface odours or stagnant
water, perhaps unless a 'householder innovation' has been reported and
complained about.  Though it would be hard and potentially embarassing for
them to prosecute against an innovation that was clearly an improvement.
Sometimes we may decide not to wait for regulations to catch up with the
times.

Regards,

David

Violet Town, where in our dreamy but dry autumn our household waste water is
greatly appreciated by the orchard, especially since the salt load from
washing detergent was reduced!

On 18/04/07, Meadows, Joel <JMeadows at portphillip.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I was impressed with the presentation on Biolitix at the Melbourne
> convergence and Dean Camoron's work in developing it. I think at its core is
> a system that can be low-energy, stable and as Graeme says "technology
> appropriate for a remote village in Bangladesh or Zambia".
>
>
>
> Essentially it is a very simple (but clever) biological system with a bit
> of high tech control gear. I'm sure there are lots of Permies out there like
> me who have looked at the Biolitix and thought "I could build one of those".
>
>
>
> Inside the tank are several layers of non degradable medium (they look
> like orange onion bags stuffed with similar material) that the water and
> solids go in to the top of. In the media are worms, beetles and other
> micro-organisms probably found in a wetish compost heap from a similar
> climate. These organisms live off the solids in the waste water and because
> of the size and diversity of space in the tank find their niche in the
> layers and spaces of the system. The water passes through and solids are
> physically and biologically filtered and consumed down through the layers of
> the system. The water that comes out the bottom is nutrient rich, but has
> almost no sediment as the biological action within the tank has caught and
> utilised the solids. Dean suggested they can be run without the pump if you
> set up the system to be gravity fed, and most of the control aspects of the
> system seem to be there to make them 'acceptable' in a highly regulated
> Western market and are not essential to its function.
>
>
>
> The cleaning of the system is a little confusing as it seems that with
> commercial units only a Biolityx rep can come and clean the system. So
> unlike dry compost systems where we get valuable solids out, I'm not sure if
> the same can be said for Biolityx. Dean justified this aspect at the
> convergence by saying that the matter that was removed was used to seed
> other Biolityx systems. The systems also needed very rare intervention, and
> I believe that the majority of the nutrient processed by the system would
> end up as suspended solids in the liquid, with almost no material getting
> stuck in the system (as long as you keep un-degradables out).
>
>
>
> It would be great if the essence of what makes the system work were freely
> available but this is of course a proprietary secret. Any home-made biolityx
> systems and not going to be 'approved', and those who are likely to make
> such systems are unlikely to be able to afford to buy one. We do live in
> crazy times!
>
>
>
> Any further thought?
>
>
>
> Joel Meadows
>
> Inner City Melbourne
>
> Damn Autumn in Melbourne is beautiful!
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: pil-pc-oceania-bounces at lists.permacultureinternational.org on behalf
> of Graeme George - Earthcare Permaculture
> Sent: Tue 4/17/2007 9:24 AM
> To: permacultue discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Human nutrients & Toilets & greywater
> systems
>
>
> Matthew, Colin and others
>
> The Biolytix system and many other "off the shelf" technologies that have
> been given regulatory approval fit in with David Holmgren's second scenario
> for our energy descent future - "Green-Tech Stability". His first scenario
> is "Techno-Explosion", ie continuation of the current reliance on technology
> to solve all our problems with unlimited energy and resources, which is of
> course a fantasy. David's third scenario is "Earth Stewardship" using
> Permaculture to design a gradual descent into a low-energy future. The
> fourth is "Atlantis", or total collapse. In David's public presentations on
> this he emphasises that the Green-tech and Earth stewardship scenarios are
> likely to run parallel courses for a short period in terms of energy use but
> must inevitably start to diverge as energy becomes scarcer/more expensive.
>
> Thus, technologies such as Biolytix, even though they may use permaculture
> concepts in their design, can only be seen as transitional until truly
> sustainable systems become acceptable. I suggest that a reasonable test is
> the question "Is this technology appropriate for a remote village in
> Bangladesh or Zambia ?" If the answer is no, then I don't see it being part
> of a sustainable low energy future. I agree that we need to be able to
> manage our own systems. Sustainable systems for basic services such as waste
> disposal need to be as self-regulating as possible and/or capable of being
> managed with minimum skills and training and requiring minimal resources and
> infrastructure for their establishment. I see most green-tech solutions as
> being the prerogative of the wealthy. Unfortunately we don't currently have
> much choice in our over-regulated society, as Colin has pointed out. (David
> also has a bit to say about getting around bureaucratic impediments!)
>
> For those who haven't heard David speak about these energy descent
> scenarios, his PP presentation can be viewed as a PDF file on his website (
> www.holmgren.com.au), under Writings, Permaculture Solutions for the
> Energy Descent Future.
>
> Regards
>
> Graeme
>
> Graeme George
> Earthcare Permaculture
> 35 Deering Ave, Healesville, Vic, 3777
> (03) 5962 5070
>
> Matthew Bond wrote:
>
>        Hi Colin,
>
>        From what I've seen and heard about Biolytix I'm a great supporter
> however I must say I was a little suspicious of it when I heard only people
> from Biolytix could service it if there was a problem and something about an
> alarm that can be activated which sends a fault report back to Biolytix via
> the phone line (not too sure about that??)  I think it would be preferable
> for the owner to learn how to maintain it.  Then again, I don't know how
> viable it is to train someone to do the maintenance and there may be other
> issues.  What are you thoughts on this?
>
>        Matthew.
>
>
>
>
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>
>

-- 
David Arnold
Permaculture Designer
4446 Murchison Rd
Violet Town VIC AUS 3669
03 5798 1679
arnold.vt at gmail.com
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