[Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture People's Party

Mon Jul 2 11:39:02 EST 2007

Dear Permaculture,  

Agree with those who worry that all this energy might better be spent
working with the Greens or doing something to promote permaculture in
its own right.  I am wondering what it is that Permaculturists might
have against the Greens party.  This has been suggested a number of
times but I am not sure what specifically people are worried about with
the Greens.  More importantly I am not sure that what we permaculturists
might be worried about with the Greens would be the same across the
movement.  My own concern with the Greens is that their utopia - what we
are working towards to replace the present social system - strikes me as
unlikely to work; they favour what can be called a mixed economy model
with aspects of socialism, capitalism and anarchism; I favour an
anarchist moneyless gift economy model.  I doubt if this problem and my
solution are exactly what might be the go with other permaculturists!!! 
I also worry that they put people off sometimes with what amounts to a
whole lot of proposed legislation that can seem like the state trying to
control your every move.  For example bans on four wheel drives on
beaches and so on.  This is a very tricky situation as I think that
given a capitalist economy and representative democracy you end up
having to support laws that ban this and that and tax you for the other
etc.  But the populace is not very keen on this generally.  I suppose
what I might like is a bit more attention to acknowledging people's
concerns with government surveillance and more of an apologetic
explanation of why we have to support this kind of legislation in the
present context and cannot just rely on changes in community sentiment -
e.g  a carbon trading scheme rather than relying on everyone choosing
green power.  You have to debate this issue with the public.  The other
thing is that people worry that the Greens are going to rush around
changing the economic system in ways that will end up with everyone out
of a job.  The Greens have been better on explaining their policy on 
this in recent years but it is still a key point with the punters out
there.  

Despite all this I still support the Greens; they are the only party
that really acknowledges the depth of the environmental crisis and the
drastic nature of what has to be done to solve it.  I also think that
voting for them within the preferential system (i,e giving second
preferences to the ALP) is very effective in putting pressure on the
major parties to do something.  What worries me at the moment is the way
their vote has remained at roughly the same level for more than a decade
despite the recent and growing concern about global warming.  I am not
sure whether this means that people think the other parties are dealing
with it; my own research suggests this is unlikely.  What is more likely
is that most people are still too worried about their own jobs or income
to support any party which may seem to threaten that.  Watch this
space.

Terry

p.s for a lot more detail on this and reasonably recent research on
attitudes of the public to environmental issues see my new website
address:

http://gifteconomy.octapod.org/

>>> David Arnold <arnold.vt at gmail.com> Saturday, 30 June 2007 11:21 am
>>>
As Deb said, "So many new political parties, so few elections!!!"   I
agree.

I don't really have any objection to the Greens.  For what you can set
out
to do from the top down end, the kinds of things the Greens say and do
seems
fine to me.

PPP seems like an oxymoron.

And I am reluctant to contribute to splintering the [small g] green
vote
even further.

If the Greens do what they can through the political process, that
flies the
flag there, and leaves us permies free to do what we can at the edge. 
I
feel that, yes, the action is at the edge.

I know it is difficult to balance edge and mainstream.....  I
personally
struggle with wanting to engage the local council more and more, as the
next
step on from our village 'council' which is already fairly actively
green.
[yes, even considering suggestions to run for council, but absolutely
not
wanting to].....  not wanting to get sucked in to their institutional
inertia and mainstream paradigm.  All power to others who are able to
achieve good things by doing that.

This tension between applying our energies at the edge or into the
mainstream is absolutely part and parcel of our challenge as permies,
and we
all have to find our own way with that.

dave

On 30/06/07, Deb Guildner <bocor at bigbutton.com.au> wrote:
>
> Damn, I just joined WhatWomenWant!
> So many new political parties, so few elections!!!
>
> Deb
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <permaculture at apollobay.org.au>
> To: <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 1:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture People's Party
>
>
> > For those who don't know about this, there's a campaign to start a
> > permaculture political party "Permaculture People's Party" (PPP)
> >
> > The campaign is being driven by Tamara Griffiths (from Bunyip)
with
> > support
> > from Bill Mollison.
> >
> > To join, download a form at:
> >
> >
>
http://www.aec.gov.au/pdf/party_reg/handbook/political_parties_reg_handbook_

> > 2005_app05.pdf
> > Party name is Permaculture People's Party.
> >
> > Send it to:
> >
> > Bill Mollison
> > 31 Rulla Road
> > Sisters Creek
> > Tasmania 7325
> >
> > There's a discussion on this at:
> > http://forums.permaculture.org.au/ftopic4895-0-asc-30.php 
> >
> > I've joined.  I think it's about time permaculture set up a
political
> > party.  We need more permies in politics.  I'd like to see a PPP
> candidate
> > in each seat, and on each voting card... that would really
permeate
> > permaculture into the main stream... and disintegrate the
perception of
> > permaculture just being about gardening.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Fern
> >
> >
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: pacific-edge info at pacific-edge.info 
> > Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:41:09 +1000
> > To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org 
> > Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Jim's Permaculture
> >
> >
> > This is surely an interesting development further illustrating the
> > mainstreaming of Permaculture.
> >
> > POSITIVES:
> > * mainstreams Permaculture, which is where we want it to be, don't
we?
> > * makes Permaculture acceptable and available to householders
through an
> > established landscape services franchise
> > * provides income stream so practitioneers can build it into their
> income
> > stream
> > * partnership with Southern Cross Permaculture Institute signals
of
> > validity
> > of model and surety of its credibility.
> >
> >
> > NEGATIVES:
> > * perpetuates Permaculture as gardening due to focus of franchise
as
> > landscaping business .
> >
> >
> > INTERESTING:
> > * vaguelly reminescent of notion of Permaculture as consultantcy
service
> > at
> > start of design system's history
> > * new economic model for Permaculture - interesting to see how it
goes
> > * don't know if it's possible within the franchising model, but
would it
> > be
> > possibilities to partner with energy auditor/technology/building
> designers
> > to retrofit buildings and with water auditors and retrofitters to
make
> > buildings/gardens water efficient.
> >
> >
> > Just a few preliminary thoughts.
> >
> > ...Russ Grayson
> >
> >
> > On 29/6/07 12:19 PM, "Andrew Rettig" <eatgreens at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>An interesting development by 'Jim'.
> >
> >>Permaculture Franchise Business?
> >
> >>http://www.jimspermaculture.com.au/ 
> >><mailto:pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> >> http://www.jimspermaculture.com.au 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
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-- 
David Arnold
Permaculture Designer
4446 Murchison Rd
Violet Town VIC AUS 3669
03 5798 1679
arnold.vt at gmail.com