[Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture People's Party

[Terry Leahy]

Dear Cecile,  

This is fascinating.  What state are you in?  In Newcastle there have
also been problems like this with the Greens, which I will not go into
because they are based around a set of allegations about one member that
were very defamatory - it was how the Greens handled these that bothered
some members.   Personally, this is part of why I stay on the periphery
and put my energies elsewhere.  Nevertheless I still vote for them and
hand out how to votes at election days.  From my perspective no party is
perfect and I am not at all convinced that a PPP would do better than
the Greens in terms of the issues you raise. You would have to agree
that when the Greens started in Australia the personnel were not that
different to those you would find in the average permie gathering.   I
support the Greens as a political strategy that makes sense at the
present time.  Like some others on this list, I tend to believe that
permaculturists could use their time better doing something else than
creating another party while this one is available!  

Terry


>>> Cecile <anhinga at internode.on.net> Tuesday, 3 July 2007 12:31 pm
>>>
Hi Terry
While I support the principles of the Greens and think the Senators
are
doing a great job I no longer support my State party and have resigned
from
it. I held a senior position in it and the in fighting and
self-seeking
rampant ambition was unbelievable - all ended with a bunch of us
resigning
our positions - as aspect which continues. The Greens became yet
another
poliltical party with their focus switched to getting elected and
while
there is reason in that it should always come second to principles -
not
override them.  

If PPP can stick with the principles of permaculture it could create a
different model for politics and that is what I think would be
exciting.
Just because it's a political party doesn't mean it has to follow the
practices of all the other parties just as a landholding permie doesn't
have
to follow the practices of all the other landholders.
Cheers
Cecile

-----Original Message-----
From: pil-pc-oceania-bounces at lists.permacultureinternational.org 
[mailto:pil-pc-oceania-bounces at lists.permacultureinternational.org] On
Behalf Of pacific-edge
Sent: Tuesday, 3 July 2007 10:09 AM
To: pil
Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture People's Party

On 2/7/07 11:39 AM, "Terry Leahy" <Terry.Leahy at newcastle.edu.au>
wrote:

> Dear Permaculture,
> 
> Agree with those who worry that all this energy might better be spent

> working with the Greens or doing something to promote permaculture in

> its own right.  I am wondering what it is that Permaculturists might

> have against the Greens party.T his has been suggested a number of 
> times but I am not sure what specifically people are worried about 
> with the Greens.

Their duplicitous role in voting against renewal of the lease for the
Eastern Suburbs Community Garden (Waverly Greens on Waverly Council).

In comparison, the Randwick Greens supported the campaign to retain
the
community garden at UNSW.

This shows that the greens are somewhat erratic when it comes to policy
and
in complying with their own myth of being suppportive of community.

> More importantly I am not sure that what we permaculturists might be

> worried about with the Greens would be the same across the movement. 

> My own concern with the Greens is that their utopia - what we are 
> working towards to replace the present social system - strikes me as

> unlikely to work; they favour what can be called a mixed economy
model 
> with aspects of socialism, capitalism and anarchism; I favour an 
> anarchist moneyless gift economy model.  I doubt if this problem and

> my solution are exactly what might be the go with other
permaculturists!!!

This seems quite a long term aim rather than one based on present
realpolitik. But who dares predict the evolution of complex societies?
You
never know.

> I also worry that they put people off sometimes with what amounts to
a 
> whole lot of proposed legislation that can seem like the state trying

> to control your every move.  For example bans on four wheel drives on

> beaches and so on.

Yes, this too. Too many laws but not those we really need for the long
term.
Too much interference in people's everyday life.

> Despite all this I still support the Greens; they are the only party

> that really acknowledges the depth of the environmental crisis and
the 
> drastic nature of what has to be done to solve it.  I also think that

> voting for them within the preferential system (i,e giving second 
> preferences to the ALP) is very effective in putting pressure on the

> major parties to do something.  What worries me at the moment is the

> way their vote has remained at roughly the same level for more than a

> decade despite the recent and growing concern about global warming.

I spoke about this with a long-term member of the ALP connected to the
judiciary. He puts it down to the erratic nature of Green
pronouncements and
policies. 

>  What is more likely is that most people are still too worried about

> their own
jobs or income to support any party which may seem to threaten that. 
Watch
this space.

And this is what the PPP will have to deal with.
> 
> Terry

>>Grahame George of Earthcare Permaculture
<earthcarepc at virtual.net.au>wrote:

>>We seem to have two camps developing, those wanting revolutionary 
>>change and those taking an evolutionary approach.  As a biologist and

>>pragmatist I
believe that the latter approach is more likely to succeed in our
industrialised society.

Is this analogous to the way the German Green Party split betweeen the
'realos' - the pragmatists - and the 'politicos' - the ideological
branch?

...Russ

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