[Pil-pc-oceania] First move of PPP may be to act as wedge in PC movement

[Mitra Ardron]

Well said Tim,

My concern about a separate permaculture party is that it will split 
people who think this way between support for the Green Party, and 
support for PPP. If the result is to mean that those who bridge the 
two worlds of permaculture & politics are off in a separate party 
rather than working within the Green Party then the effect might be 
to make permaculture even more marginalised from politics.

Of course the Green Party is flawed, but that is the nature of 
politics, and there is little reason to think that a PPP wouldn't 
have all the same flaws, after all, permaculture isn't renowned for 
creating functional organisations.

I think we'd also find that there would be more difference WITHIN a 
PPP than there would be between the Greens and PPP, e.g. how close 
the desired utopia is to the mainstream v. how close to anarchy.

- Mitra


At 10:36 PM +1000 3/7/07, timwinton wrote:
>Hi Kerry,
>
>Glad getting my own thoughts down has been useful to you and perhaps others.
>This is causing much conversation for good reason. I think there are two
>very broad groups in permaculture, at least in Australia. They seem to
>correspond to the personalities and actions of the respective founders:
>David- thoughtful, understated and substantial; Bill iconoclastic, media
>savvy and controversial.
>
>In my opinion this is typical Bill- make an outrageous claim, consume all
>the oxygen by fanning controversy, walk away from the smoldering wreckage. I
>think more considered and substantial permaculturists are becoming more and
>more reluctant to be associated with this kind of behavior- even by one of
>the founders.
>
>If there is a real distinction in the permaculture community, it may be
>Bill's intention to highlight this and drive a wedge to cause a split. This
>may be a natural and useful development. As always though, any
>differentiation should be undertaken as compassionately as possible. We'll
>see how we go.
>
>Thanks for your own post. I sensed a real resonance with my own feelings.
>
>Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "kerry dawborn" <kdawborn at bigpond.com>
>To: "permacultue discussion list"
><pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:20 PM
>Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] First move of PPP may be to act as wedge in PC
>movement
>
>
>>  Tim I want to thank you for your very considered thoughts on the idea of
>>  a PPP. I haven't been involved in Pc as long as people like you, and
>>  have no direct experience of the early development of the movement etc,
>>  so have been a bit reticent in expressing the full extent of my concerns
>>  on the list and probably even in articulating them fully for myself; no
>>  matter though - your contribution has done it for me on both counts.
>>
>>  The flurry of discussion on this issue certainly seems to highlight a
>>  feeling among permies that there is a need to strengthen and perhaps
>>  consolidate our voice and our presence in the mainstream.... Will be
>>  interesting to see what happens...
>>
>>  cheers,
>>
>>  Kerry
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Mitra Ardron:  Natural Innovation  & Zelfo Australia
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