[Pil-pc-oceania] Politics
stevehart
stevehart at raglan.co.nz
Sat Jul 7 11:51:04 EST 2007
In my opinion and experience its best to let everyone work on which
ever front they can....some like to enter politics at all different
levels...thats great, some just like to be lobbyists, thats great
too....the reality is that we need to be working on all fronts all
the time. So just let those do what they want to do. No one is
suggesting that any energy is going to drawn away or dissipated....so
keep working on every front.......Steve Hart
On 6/07/2007, at 2:00 PM, pil-pc-oceania-
request at lists.permacultureinternational.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: PIL to Permaculture Australia? & lobbying (kerry dawborn)
> 2. Re: Permaculture People's Party (pacific-edge)
> 3. [Fwd: Re: PIL to Permaculture Australia? & lobbying]
> (kerry dawborn)
> 4. Re: [Fwd: Re: PIL to Permaculture Australia? & lobbying]
> (kerry dawborn)
> 5. Re: politcal insanity (Mike Morris)
> 6. Organic tomatoes have more antioxidants (Robyn Williamson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:54:10 +1000
> From: kerry dawborn <kdawborn at bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PIL to Permaculture Australia? &
> lobbying
> To: permaculture at apollobay.org.au, permacultue discussion list
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <468CB1B2.4040706 at bigpond.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> It seems to make sense to me to focus on building membership of
> existing
> Permaculture bodies, as Fern and Robyn suggest, to help us in becoming
> more a more listened-to and effective lobby group - perhaps this would
> be a good use of our resources and energy, since the infrastructure is
> already in place. While we're doing this we could work on building
> lobbying and public education skills within the movement...
>
> cheers,
>
> kerry
>
> permaculture at apollobay.org.au wrote:
>> Hi Robyn, Tim and all
>>
>> Is it correct that international permies can join PIL, but they
>> just can't
>> serve on the board if they're not a resident of Austtralia (due to
>> ASIC
>> rules)?
>>
>>> From my survey on PRI's forum
>> http://forums.permaculture.org.au/ftopic5230.php
>> there's a couple of international permies who have just become
>> aware of PIL
>> and have indicated interest in joining.
>>
>> In my opinion, if PIL is promoted more it's membership will rise.
>>
>> Perhaps PIL can still have an international arm, but a national
>> "Permaculture Australia" body, like Permaculture UK has? They
>> seem to have
>> a good working model there.
>>
>> I agree with Robyn that permaculture needs a higher public profile,
>> credibility and large membership base to be an effective lobby.
>>
>> I have managed to meet with John Thwaites (although briefly) and
>> Elaine
>> Carbines (who was Environmental Secretary and MP for Geelong
>> Province).
>> She was great! She really listened and even came on a field trip!
>> Unfortunately at the last state election, her party (ALP) put her
>> third on
>> the ticket, and she fell behind the Greens candidate (Marcus
>> Ward), and
>> then all of her above the line (ALP) preferences went to the DLP,
>> and the
>> DLP got in (on a 2% primary vote).
>> Persistence is needed when lobbying, I didn't just send one email
>> or one
>> phone call... but if an organisation has a large membership base,
>> then it's
>> easier and you are listened to more by the pollies. They (or their
>> assistants/advisors) always ask you about your membership base.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Fern
>> Otways & Coast Bioregion
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions from a leading
>> provider -
>> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
>> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>> http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:33:18 +1000
> From: pacific-edge <info at pacific-edge.info>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture People's Party
> To: pil <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <C2B2F7FE.2A35%info at pacific-edge.info>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> On 1/7/07 10:16 PM, "mossmans" <mossmans at internode.on.net> wrote:
>
>> Many years ago, in NZ I handed out leaflets, and voted for a party
>> called
>> Values party, it was slightly leftish, espoused green things,
>> sharing of
>> land etc. I always believed that my vote should be a positive vote
>>
>> The effect of people voting for Values was that it split the vote and
>> instead of Labour getting in the Nationals won (Piggy Muldoon etc)
>
> The New Zealand Values Party did have a positive impact, however - it
> inspired the United Tasmania Group (UTG) which almost managed to
> have a
> candidate elected to state parliament. It also, through UTG members
> who went
> on to found the Tasmanian Greens, have a longer lasting impact in this
> country.
>
>> At this time in history and in our climate crisis where do you
>> think your
>> vote would be more effective.
>
> Can we realistically see many people voting for Permaculture? Does
> the idea
> have sufficient currency in society and is there a sufficient
> understanding
> of it that would encourage people to vote for it?
>
>> Do an analysis of what people practicing permaculture do. They
>> quietly go
>> about their business setting up systems in their own back yards.
>
> And using it in their work, where possible, If people only use it
> in their
> backyards then it certainly won't be a vote catcher, given that
> many people
> do not have a backyord or, if they have, then it is a rental
> backyard in
> which they cannot make changes. A backyard remains only a dream for
> the
> increasing number unable to afford a house in this, the most
> expensive city
> in the southern hemisphere.
>
>> In a city of Sydney (4million) there are now 3 groups.
>> Permaculture North -
>> booming with about 180 + members, Permaculture Sydney West -
>> Wentworthville
>> area about 30 members, oh and a fledgling group in Campbelltown
>> area of
>> about 10 or is that 4 people. With a few scattered around the
>> greater basin
>> area ?50 That adds up to about 260 people.. Wow!!
>
> Not everyone who has done a PDC is interested in being involved in a
> permaculture movement or group. They may just be interested in
> using the
> philosophical approach in their work and community life.
>
>
> ...Russ
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:06:13 +1000
> From: kerry dawborn <kdawborn at bigpond.com>
> Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] [Fwd: Re: PIL to Permaculture Australia? &
> lobbying]
> To: oceania list latest
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <468CDEB5.9020200 at bigpond.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> Although, I find it frustrating to lobby politicans, especially
> when the
> good ones get ousted, and the other ones do flip flops. I feel
> it's much
> more logical to educate the populace so that they will vote for the
> party
> with permaculture ethics & principles (and doesn't do flip flops with
> them). It's fine to say that those permies who are politically
> inclined
> can work within the existing main parties, but factional divisions
> play a
> major role in preselection and ticketing. I wonder what faction
> the QLD
> ALP permie (that Robyn mentioned) is in... and if in no faction,
> then how
> long he'll be in that role before being ousted like Elaine.
> There's alot
> of permies already working behind the scene, working in government
> positions both local, state and federal... sometimes they can
> influence and
> change things, sometimes they can't.
>
> Fern
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: kerry dawborn kdawborn at bigpond.com
> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:54:10 +1000
> To: permaculture at apollobay.org.au,
> pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PIL to Permaculture Australia? &
> lobbying
>
>
> It seems to make sense to me to focus on building membership of
> existing
> Permaculture bodies, as Fern and Robyn suggest, to help us in becoming
> more a more listened-to and effective lobby group - perhaps this would
> be a good use of our resources and energy, since the infrastructure is
> already in place. While we're doing this we could work on building
> lobbying and public education skills within the movement...
>
> cheers,
>
> kerry
>
> permaculture at apollobay.org.au wrote:
>> Hi Robyn, Tim and all
>>
>> Is it correct that international permies can join PIL, but they
>> just can't
>> serve on the board if they're not a resident of Austtralia (due to
>> ASIC
>> rules)?
>>
>>> From my survey on PRI's forum
>> http://forums.permaculture.org.au/ftopic5230.php
>> there's a couple of international permies who have just become
>> aware of
> PIL
>> and have indicated interest in joining.
>>
>> In my opinion, if PIL is promoted more it's membership will rise.
>>
>> Perhaps PIL can still have an international arm, but a national
>> "Permaculture Australia" body, like Permaculture UK has? They
>> seem to
> have
>> a good working model there.
>>
>> I agree with Robyn that permaculture needs a higher public profile,
>> credibility and large membership base to be an effective lobby.
>>
>> I have managed to meet with John Thwaites (although briefly) and
>> Elaine
>> Carbines (who was Environmental Secretary and MP for Geelong
>> Province).
>> She was great! She really listened and even came on a field trip!
>> Unfortunately at the last state election, her party (ALP) put her
>> third on
>> the ticket, and she fell behind the Greens candidate (Marcus
>> Ward), and
>> then all of her above the line (ALP) preferences went to the DLP,
>> and the
>> DLP got in (on a 2% primary vote).
>> Persistence is needed when lobbying, I didn't just send one email
>> or one
>> phone call... but if an organisation has a large membership base,
>> then
> it's
>> easier and you are listened to more by the pollies. They (or their
>> assistants/advisors) always ask you about your membership base.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Fern
>> Otways & Coast Bioregion
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions from a leading
>> provider -
>> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
>> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>> http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:09:45 +1000
> From: kerry dawborn <kdawborn at bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] [Fwd: Re: PIL to Permaculture Australia?
> & lobbying]
> To: permacultue discussion list
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <468CDF89.4020004 at bigpond.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> oops - I forwarded the previous message as per below, on Fern's
> (Apollo
> Bay) behalf because she'd sent it to me but meant to send to the
> list -
> just so you know it's correct writer!
>
> :-)
>
> Kerry
>
>> Although, I find it frustrating to lobby politicans, especially
>> when the
>> good ones get ousted, and the other ones do flip flops. I feel
>> it's much
>> more logical to educate the populace so that they will vote for
>> the party
>> with permaculture ethics & principles (and doesn't do flip flops with
>> them). It's fine to say that those permies who are politically
>> inclined
>> can work within the existing main parties, but factional divisions
>> play a
>> major role in preselection and ticketing. I wonder what faction
>> the QLD
>> ALP permie (that Robyn mentioned) is in... and if in no faction,
>> then how
>> long he'll be in that role before being ousted like Elaine.
>> There's alot
>> of permies already working behind the scene, working in government
>> positions both local, state and federal... sometimes they can
>> influence and
>> change things, sometimes they can't.
>>
>> Fern
>>
>> Original Message:
>> -----------------
>> From: kerry dawborn kdawborn at bigpond.com
>> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:54:10 +1000
>> To: permaculture at apollobay.org.au,
>> pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PIL to Permaculture Australia? &
>> lobbying
>>
>>
>> It seems to make sense to me to focus on building membership of
>> existing
>> Permaculture bodies, as Fern and Robyn suggest, to help us in
>> becoming
>> more a more listened-to and effective lobby group - perhaps this
>> would
>> be a good use of our resources and energy, since the
>> infrastructure is
>> already in place. While we're doing this we could work on building
>> lobbying and public education skills within the movement...
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> kerry
>>
>> permaculture at apollobay.org.au wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Robyn, Tim and all
>>>
>>> Is it correct that international permies can join PIL, but they
>>> just can't
>>> serve on the board if they're not a resident of Austtralia (due
>>> to ASIC
>>> rules)?
>>>
>>>> From my survey on PRI's forum
>>> http://forums.permaculture.org.au/ftopic5230.php
>>> there's a couple of international permies who have just become
>>> aware of
>>>
>> PIL
>>
>>> and have indicated interest in joining.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, if PIL is promoted more it's membership will rise.
>>>
>>> Perhaps PIL can still have an international arm, but a national
>>> "Permaculture Australia" body, like Permaculture UK has? They
>>> seem to
>>>
>> have
>>
>>> a good working model there.
>>>
>>> I agree with Robyn that permaculture needs a higher public profile,
>>> credibility and large membership base to be an effective lobby.
>>>
>>> I have managed to meet with John Thwaites (although briefly) and
>>> Elaine
>>> Carbines (who was Environmental Secretary and MP for Geelong
>>> Province).
>>> She was great! She really listened and even came on a field trip!
>>> Unfortunately at the last state election, her party (ALP) put her
>>> third on
>>> the ticket, and she fell behind the Greens candidate (Marcus
>>> Ward), and
>>> then all of her above the line (ALP) preferences went to the DLP,
>>> and the
>>> DLP got in (on a 2% primary vote).
>>> Persistence is needed when lobbying, I didn't just send one email
>>> or one
>>> phone call... but if an organisation has a large membership base,
>>> then
>>>
>> it's
>>
>>> easier and you are listened to more by the pollies. They (or their
>>> assistants/advisors) always ask you about your membership base.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>> Fern
>>> Otways & Coast Bioregion
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions from a leading
>>> provider -
>>> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
>>> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>>> http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
>> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
>> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>> http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:51:24 +0200
> From: Mike Morris <mikro2nd at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] politcal insanity
> To: permacultue discussion list
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <468D137C.1050601 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Martin Naylor wrote:
>> I fully agree with setting up a political party but and this is a
>> big but to remain true to permaculture that is to get the maximum
>> use out of the land and water and space with minimum effort and
>> maintain sustainability we must hold true to this ideal
>
> I thought "political insanity" was one of those whatchamacallums....
> like "military intelligence" :-) oxymoron!
>
>> So it as to be a international force that is PERMACULTURE as no
>> political or religious intent we can not start a political party
>> ONLY in Australia we have to start a political party on the same
>> day in every country in the world at the same time
>
> Would love to give it a go here in South Africa, as local Green
> parties
> are so lame it's way beyond a joke, but politics! ugh!
>
> Y'all know the joke: How do you know when a politician is lying? Ans:
> Their mouth is open.
>
> Not really a joke, IMHO...
>
> --
> mike morris :: mikro2nd at gmail.com
>
> http://mikro2nd.net/
> http://mikro2nd.net/blog/planb/
> http://mikro2nd.net/blog/mike/
>
> ----- A day without chillies is a day wasted ------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:27:48 +1000
> From: Robyn Williamson <robinet at aapt.net.au>
> Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Organic tomatoes have more antioxidants
> To: Pil-pc-oceania NETWORK
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <1ADCBC90-2B60-11DC-97C9-0030657170AA at aapt.net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> New Scientist
> 5 July 2007
>
> According to a 10-year study by food chemists at the University of
> California, Davis, organic tomatoes are on average 79% higher in the
> flavonoid quercetin and 97% higher in kaempferol, both of which are
> known antioxidants.
>
> The research team, led by Alyson Mitchell, says the findings can be
> explained by nitrogen availability. "Flavonoids are produced as a
> defence mechanism that can be triggered by nutrient deficiency. The
> inorganic nitrogen in conventional fertiliser is easily available to
> plants and ... the lower levels of flavonoids are probably caused by
> overfertilisation."
>
> Read the full story by Duncan Graham-Rowe at the New Scientist
> Environment website:
>
> http://environment.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19526114.900
>
> Regards,
> Robyn Williamson
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
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