[Pil-pc-oceania] PPP? meeting October 31st Melbourne

permaculture at apollobay.org.au permaculture at apollobay.org.au
Wed Jul 11 14:05:58 EST 2007 

There's venues down in Apollo bay too... and David Holmgren, Su Dennett,
Colin Ball and all the other Advanced Permaculture Design course
participants may be persuaded to stay a couple more days (after the course
finishes on October 28th), if Bill wants to come to Apollo Bay and have the
meeting down here...

What sort of quotes for venues have you been getting Tamara?

cheers
Fern


Original Message:
-----------------
From: tamara griffiths scarletwoman at hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:59:03 +0000
To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania]  PPP? meeting October 31st Melbourne


Does anyone have some ideas for a place to hold the PPP? meeting on October 
31st. I have been having a look around melbourne and the venues are all 
pretty expensive, even the trades hall bar (Paddy has left, so no freebie 
there).

Could we hold it in a suburban or even country hall?

This is also a call for helpers - no idea what roles yet...

Much love,
Tamara



Tamara Griffiths
39 Wattle Tree Road
Bunyip
Victoria 3815
03 5629 5918
0407 45 7707
scarletwoman at hotmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boodicusducky/

"Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi

'The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do 
nothing." Edmund Burke





>From: "tamara griffiths" <scarletwoman at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: permacultue discussion 
>list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
>To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP, flying blind and type 1 errors
>Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:43:52 +0000
>
>
>There are types of errors?
>
>Uh oh.
>
>Stay tuned for 2 thru 10. and then 10 thru 20 :)
>
>
>Tamara
>
>
>Tamara Griffiths
>39 Wattle Tree Road
>Bunyip
>Victoria 3815
>03 5629 5918
>0407 45 7707
>scarletwoman at hotmail.com
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/boodicusducky/
>
>"Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi
>
>'The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do
>nothing." Edmund Burke
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "timwinton" <timwinton at internode.on.net>
> >Reply-To: permacultue discussion
> >list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> >To: "permacultue discussion
> >list"<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP, flying blind and type 1 errors
> >Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:45:13 +1000
> >
> >Hi Tamara,
> >
> >Discussion should take place anywhere and I don't think anyone should 
>seek
> >to limit this.
> >
> >Decision making is another thing. For something that will impact all
> >permaculturists, decisions should be made democratically in 
>democratically
> >controlled organizations.
> >
> >With all due respect, if you are "flying blind" then it would be better 
>to
> >start back at conversations and dialogue, move to consensus building, 
>then
> >to decision making about whether or not a ppp is a good idea.
> >
> >Jumping in blind at starting a ppp seems to me like a Type 1 error.
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >
> >Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "tamara griffiths" <scarletwoman at hotmail.com>
> >To: <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> >Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 7:01 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP
> >
> >
> > > Hi Kerry,
> > >
> > > There is a valid concern that has been raised several times about the
> > > impact
> > > that a permaculture political party will have on the wider 
>permaculture
> > > community and i think it needs to be discussed in depth and often.
> > >
> > > Lets start. Lets raise point by point and discuss them. I'll start 
>with
> > > one
> > > raised in a private email.
> > >
> > > Will a permaculture political party have an effect on Permaculture
> > > organisation applying for grants?
> > >
> > > ?????
> > >
> > >
> > > As for "a few people deciding for the rest of us", I disagree that I
> >(and
> > > one or two others) have decided that there should be a party 
>regardless
> >of
> > > other permies. However, if any permies feel that they could not vote 
>for
> > > one
> > > being developed in the way things are at the moment, this is a 
>problem.
> > > Please direct me. I haven't convened a Political party before, much 
>less
> >a
> > > permaculture based one. I am flying blind and I need guidance. I may 
>be
> > > the
> > > wrong person to convene the party. Would you like to help me Kerry,
> >guide
> > > me?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To allay some fears, a party needs 500 members to even register. We 
>are
> >a
> > > long way off that number at the moment. In fact we are a long way off
> > > 50!!!
> > > We are a long way off even being able to legally form.
> > >
> > > Reflection comes after an action, such as floating the idea of a 
>party.
> >I
> > > believe we are in observation and reflection mode at the moment.
> >Observing
> > > reactions, ideas, emotions, more ideas. Great. Lets keep doing it.
> > >
> > > Should I continue planning a meeting on the 31st of October in
> >Melbourne,
> > > another forum to discuss the idea? I have been collecting questions 
>and
> > > topics to dicuss on the night. This is indeed one of them. Do we need
> >for
> > > time to observe and discuss the idea of a PPP? How many people can
> >decide
> > > to
> > > form it? 500? 1000?
> > >
> > > Lots of people have expressed happiness and relief with the idea of a
> > > party,
> > > as well as dismay, anger, caution.
> > >
> > > Regarding my (over?) exuberance at the idea Martin tell the world 
>about
> >a
> > > PPP, permaculture reaches far beyond Australia and many people around
> >the
> > > world have probably already read about a PPP on the forums. And is it
> > > really
> > > not ok to talk about an idea and to direct any body interested to the
> >PRI
> > > forum for discussions?
> > >
> > > I am interested in what form the party will take. We need two office
> > > bearers, a secretary to which all correspondence is directed and a
> > > registered officer that deals with membership. After that, it is all 
>up
> > > for
> > > discussion.
> > >
> > > So.
> > >
> > > Will we form a party? How do we form a party if we decide to form one?
> > >
> > > How will it look, act, respond, are there structures? are structures
> > > necessary?
> > >
> > > Will we actually stand anyone for election? How will we chose them?
> > >
> > > What will our policies be?
> > >
> > > Help me, I do want to do this properly,
> > > Tamara
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tamara Griffiths
> > > 39 Wattle Tree Road
> > > Bunyip
> > > Victoria 3815
> > > 03 5629 5918
> > > 0407 45 7707
> > > scarletwoman at hotmail.com
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/boodicusducky/
> > >
> > > "Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi
> > >
> > > 'The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do
> > > nothing." Edmund Burke
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: kerry dawborn <kdawborn at bigpond.com>
> > >>Reply-To: permacultue discussion
> > >>list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> > >>To: permacultue discussion
> > >>list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> > >>Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP
> > >>Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 10:02:09 +1000
> > >>
> > >>I'm a bit concerned about the speed at which things regarding the idea
> > >>of a PPP are moving - I think it's easy to overlook the fact that
> > >>whatever is done regarding something as big and public as a 
>permaculture
> > >>involvement in politics is going to affect and reflect on the entire
> > >>permaculture community, and the way it is perceived, and continues to 
>be
> > >>received, in the wider community. Personally I would like there to be
> > >>far more reflection and discussion within the Australian community
> > >>before taking the idea of a PPP to the international community, or
> > >>before other steps are taken.
> > >>
> > >>This is a huge thing. It could have deep ramifications for 
>permaculture
> > >>on multiple levels far into the future. It may or may not be a good
> > >>idea, but right now it feels to me as if a few people have just 
>decided
> > >>for the rest of us, to go for it, and are doing so in a manner that
> > >>seems to completely ignore the principle of small steps, observation 
>and
> > >>reflection that is at the core of permaculture design methodology. It
> > >>seems to me to bode very poorly for the integrity of a Permaculture
> > >>People's Party, if it does not even in how it is created, follow and
> > >>demonstrate permaculture design principles. I can understand that 
>there
> > >>may be a sense of urgency because we have a federal election on the 
>way,
> > >>things in the world are worrying and it will be a while before there's
> > >>another federal election. However, I believe a development as 
>important
> > >>as a formal entry into politics needs to be carefully thought out and
> > >>should not be undertaken in haste, throwing central ideas in
> > >>permaculture to the wind, for the sake of short term expediency.
> > >>
> > >>We either believe in the basic ideas that are central in permaculture
> > >>and want to take a stand for them and live and act by them in the 
>public
> > >>arena as well as our personal lives, or we do not. I realise that it 
>is
> > >>possible to spend too much time thinking and not enough time doing, 
>but
> > >>the speed at which a relatively few people seem to be moving with 
>this,
> > >>without broad and deep reflection and a level of consensus within the
> > >>permaculture community as a whole, is making me feel that they are 
>*not
> > >>*reflecting what I feel permaculture is about, and are not likely to
> > >>build something that I can stand by. To me, a thoughtfully, 
>consciously
> > >>designed permaculture presence in politics could be a good thing.
> > >>However, I have serious doubts about whether or not I could bring 
>myself
> > >>to vote for or support a permaculture party developed in the way 
>things
> > >>seem to be evolving at present.
> > >>
> > >>cheers,
> > >>
> > >>Kerry Dawborn.
> > >>
> > >>Martin Naylor wrote:
> > >> > Hi Martin,
> > >> >
> > >> > You may as well see what groups around the world think - and direct
> > >> > them to
> > >> > the PRI forum for discussions...
> > >> >
> > >> > Hey and you're a U2 fan too!
> > >> > I like a lot of music the greatest band ever is The Moody Blues
> > >> >
> > >> > i sent one to permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com
> > >> > <mailto:permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com>, I'll track a few more 
>down,
> > >> > if anyone as a list it would save a bit of time
> > >> > Martin
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Business men drink my wine Proud men dig my earth
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > Yahoo!7 Mail has just got even bigger and better with unlimited
> > >> > storage on all webmail accounts. Find out more
> > >> > <http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html>.
> > >> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
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