[Pil-pc-oceania] PPP

Mon Jul 9 21:21:37 EST 2007

I'd like to emphasise that I'm not necessarily against the idea of a PPP 
- I'm undecided. I just feel it's extremely important that if there is 
to be such a permaculture presence in the political arena, it must be in 
integrity with itself - we must be able to look at how we've done things 
and be clear that we have followed the principles in process, that we 
are supposed to stand for. We must be what we stand for in how we do 
things because if we don't, how can we expect others to to believe we 
are what we say we are?

cheers,

Kerry


tamara griffiths wrote:
> Hi Kerry,
>
> There is a valid concern that has been raised several times about the impact 
> that a permaculture political party will have on the wider permaculture 
> community and i think it needs to be discussed in depth and often.
>
> Lets start. Lets raise point by point and discuss them. I'll start with one 
> raised in a private email.
>
> Will a permaculture political party have an effect on Permaculture 
> organisation applying for grants?
>
> ?????
>
>
> As for "a few people deciding for the rest of us", I disagree that I (and 
> one or two others) have decided that there should be a party regardless of 
> other permies. However, if any permies feel that they could not vote for one 
> being developed in the way things are at the moment, this is a problem. 
> Please direct me. I haven't convened a Political party before, much less a 
> permaculture based one. I am flying blind and I need guidance. I may be the 
> wrong person to convene the party. Would you like to help me Kerry, guide 
> me?
>
>
>
> To allay some fears, a party needs 500 members to even register. We are a 
> long way off that number at the moment. In fact we are a long way off 50!!! 
> We are a long way off even being able to legally form.
>
> Reflection comes after an action, such as floating the idea of a party. I 
> believe we are in observation and reflection mode at the moment. Observing 
> reactions, ideas, emotions, more ideas. Great. Lets keep doing it.
>
> Should I continue planning a meeting on the 31st of October in Melbourne, 
> another forum to discuss the idea? I have been collecting questions and 
> topics to dicuss on the night. This is indeed one of them. Do we need for 
> time to observe and discuss the idea of a PPP? How many people can decide to 
> form it? 500? 1000?
>
> Lots of people have expressed happiness and relief with the idea of a party, 
> as well as dismay, anger, caution.
>
> Regarding my (over?) exuberance at the idea Martin tell the world about a 
> PPP, permaculture reaches far beyond Australia and many people around the 
> world have probably already read about a PPP on the forums. And is it really 
> not ok to talk about an idea and to direct any body interested to the PRI 
> forum for discussions?
>
> I am interested in what form the party will take. We need two office 
> bearers, a secretary to which all correspondence is directed and a 
> registered officer that deals with membership. After that, it is all up for 
> discussion.
>
> So.
>
> Will we form a party? How do we form a party if we decide to form one?
>
> How will it look, act, respond, are there structures? are structures 
> necessary?
>
> Will we actually stand anyone for election? How will we chose them?
>
> What will our policies be?
>
> Help me, I do want to do this properly,
> Tamara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tamara Griffiths
> 39 Wattle Tree Road
> Bunyip
> Victoria 3815
> 03 5629 5918
> 0407 45 7707
> scarletwoman at hotmail.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/boodicusducky/
>
> "Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi
>
> 'The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do 
> nothing." Edmund Burke
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>> From: kerry dawborn <kdawborn at bigpond.com>
>> Reply-To: permacultue discussion 
>> list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
>> To: permacultue discussion 
>> list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP
>> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 10:02:09 +1000
>>
>> I'm a bit concerned about the speed at which things regarding the idea
>> of a PPP are moving - I think it's easy to overlook the fact that
>> whatever is done regarding something as big and public as a permaculture
>> involvement in politics is going to affect and reflect on the entire
>> permaculture community, and the way it is perceived, and continues to be
>> received, in the wider community. Personally I would like there to be
>> far more reflection and discussion within the Australian community
>> before taking the idea of a PPP to the international community, or
>> before other steps are taken.
>>
>> This is a huge thing. It could have deep ramifications for permaculture
>> on multiple levels far into the future. It may or may not be a good
>> idea, but right now it feels to me as if a few people have just decided
>> for the rest of us, to go for it, and are doing so in a manner that
>> seems to completely ignore the principle of small steps, observation and
>> reflection that is at the core of permaculture design methodology. It
>> seems to me to bode very poorly for the integrity of a Permaculture
>> People's Party, if it does not even in how it is created, follow and
>> demonstrate permaculture design principles. I can understand that there
>> may be a sense of urgency because we have a federal election on the way,
>> things in the world are worrying and it will be a while before there's
>> another federal election. However, I believe a development as important
>> as a formal entry into politics needs to be carefully thought out and
>> should not be undertaken in haste, throwing central ideas in
>> permaculture to the wind, for the sake of short term expediency.
>>
>> We either believe in the basic ideas that are central in permaculture
>> and want to take a stand for them and live and act by them in the public
>> arena as well as our personal lives, or we do not. I realise that it is
>> possible to spend too much time thinking and not enough time doing, but
>> the speed at which a relatively few people seem to be moving with this,
>> without broad and deep reflection and a level of consensus within the
>> permaculture community as a whole, is making me feel that they are *not
>> *reflecting what I feel permaculture is about, and are not likely to
>> build something that I can stand by. To me, a thoughtfully, consciously
>> designed permaculture presence in politics could be a good thing.
>> However, I have serious doubts about whether or not I could bring myself
>> to vote for or support a permaculture party developed in the way things
>> seem to be evolving at present.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Kerry Dawborn.
>>
>> Martin Naylor wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi Martin,
>>>
>>> You may as well see what groups around the world think - and direct
>>> them to
>>> the PRI forum for discussions...
>>>
>>> Hey and you're a U2 fan too!
>>> I like a lot of music the greatest band ever is The Moody Blues
>>>
>>> i sent one to permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com>, I'll track a few more down,
>>> if anyone as a list it would save a bit of time
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> Business men drink my wine Proud men dig my earth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Yahoo!7 Mail has just got even bigger and better with unlimited
>>> storage on all webmail accounts. Find out more
>>> <http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html>.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
>>> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>>> http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
>> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>> http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
>>     
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! 
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
>
>