[Pil-pc-oceania] PPP, flying blind and type 1 errors

Tue Jul 10 14:43:52 EST 2007

There are types of errors?

Uh oh.

Stay tuned for 2 thru 10. and then 10 thru 20 :)

Tamara

Tamara Griffiths
39 Wattle Tree Road
Bunyip
Victoria 3815
03 5629 5918
0407 45 7707
scarletwoman at hotmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boodicusducky/

"Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi

'The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do 
nothing." Edmund Burke

>From: "timwinton" <timwinton at internode.on.net>
>Reply-To: permacultue discussion 
>list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
>To: "permacultue discussion 
>list"<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
>Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP, flying blind and type 1 errors
>Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:45:13 +1000
>
>Hi Tamara,
>
>Discussion should take place anywhere and I don't think anyone should seek
>to limit this.
>
>Decision making is another thing. For something that will impact all
>permaculturists, decisions should be made democratically in democratically
>controlled organizations.
>
>With all due respect, if you are "flying blind" then it would be better to
>start back at conversations and dialogue, move to consensus building, then
>to decision making about whether or not a ppp is a good idea.
>
>Jumping in blind at starting a ppp seems to me like a Type 1 error.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Tim
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "tamara griffiths" <scarletwoman at hotmail.com>
>To: <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
>Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 7:01 PM
>Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP
>
>
> > Hi Kerry,
> >
> > There is a valid concern that has been raised several times about the
> > impact
> > that a permaculture political party will have on the wider permaculture
> > community and i think it needs to be discussed in depth and often.
> >
> > Lets start. Lets raise point by point and discuss them. I'll start with
> > one
> > raised in a private email.
> >
> > Will a permaculture political party have an effect on Permaculture
> > organisation applying for grants?
> >
> > ?????
> >
> >
> > As for "a few people deciding for the rest of us", I disagree that I 
>(and
> > one or two others) have decided that there should be a party regardless 
>of
> > other permies. However, if any permies feel that they could not vote for
> > one
> > being developed in the way things are at the moment, this is a problem.
> > Please direct me. I haven't convened a Political party before, much less 
>a
> > permaculture based one. I am flying blind and I need guidance. I may be
> > the
> > wrong person to convene the party. Would you like to help me Kerry, 
>guide
> > me?
> >
> >
> >
> > To allay some fears, a party needs 500 members to even register. We are 
>a
> > long way off that number at the moment. In fact we are a long way off
> > 50!!!
> > We are a long way off even being able to legally form.
> >
> > Reflection comes after an action, such as floating the idea of a party. 
>I
> > believe we are in observation and reflection mode at the moment. 
>Observing
> > reactions, ideas, emotions, more ideas. Great. Lets keep doing it.
> >
> > Should I continue planning a meeting on the 31st of October in 
>Melbourne,
> > another forum to discuss the idea? I have been collecting questions and
> > topics to dicuss on the night. This is indeed one of them. Do we need 
>for
> > time to observe and discuss the idea of a PPP? How many people can 
>decide
> > to
> > form it? 500? 1000?
> >
> > Lots of people have expressed happiness and relief with the idea of a
> > party,
> > as well as dismay, anger, caution.
> >
> > Regarding my (over?) exuberance at the idea Martin tell the world about 
>a
> > PPP, permaculture reaches far beyond Australia and many people around 
>the
> > world have probably already read about a PPP on the forums. And is it
> > really
> > not ok to talk about an idea and to direct any body interested to the 
>PRI
> > forum for discussions?
> >
> > I am interested in what form the party will take. We need two office
> > bearers, a secretary to which all correspondence is directed and a
> > registered officer that deals with membership. After that, it is all up
> > for
> > discussion.
> >
> > So.
> >
> > Will we form a party? How do we form a party if we decide to form one?
> >
> > How will it look, act, respond, are there structures? are structures
> > necessary?
> >
> > Will we actually stand anyone for election? How will we chose them?
> >
> > What will our policies be?
> >
> > Help me, I do want to do this properly,
> > Tamara
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tamara Griffiths
> > 39 Wattle Tree Road
> > Bunyip
> > Victoria 3815
> > 03 5629 5918
> > 0407 45 7707
> > scarletwoman at hotmail.com
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/boodicusducky/
> >
> > "Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi
> >
> > 'The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do
> > nothing." Edmund Burke
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: kerry dawborn <kdawborn at bigpond.com>
> >>Reply-To: permacultue discussion
> >>list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> >>To: permacultue discussion
> >>list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP
> >>Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 10:02:09 +1000
> >>
> >>I'm a bit concerned about the speed at which things regarding the idea
> >>of a PPP are moving - I think it's easy to overlook the fact that
> >>whatever is done regarding something as big and public as a permaculture
> >>involvement in politics is going to affect and reflect on the entire
> >>permaculture community, and the way it is perceived, and continues to be
> >>received, in the wider community. Personally I would like there to be
> >>far more reflection and discussion within the Australian community
> >>before taking the idea of a PPP to the international community, or
> >>before other steps are taken.
> >>
> >>This is a huge thing. It could have deep ramifications for permaculture
> >>on multiple levels far into the future. It may or may not be a good
> >>idea, but right now it feels to me as if a few people have just decided
> >>for the rest of us, to go for it, and are doing so in a manner that
> >>seems to completely ignore the principle of small steps, observation and
> >>reflection that is at the core of permaculture design methodology. It
> >>seems to me to bode very poorly for the integrity of a Permaculture
> >>People's Party, if it does not even in how it is created, follow and
> >>demonstrate permaculture design principles. I can understand that there
> >>may be a sense of urgency because we have a federal election on the way,
> >>things in the world are worrying and it will be a while before there's
> >>another federal election. However, I believe a development as important
> >>as a formal entry into politics needs to be carefully thought out and
> >>should not be undertaken in haste, throwing central ideas in
> >>permaculture to the wind, for the sake of short term expediency.
> >>
> >>We either believe in the basic ideas that are central in permaculture
> >>and want to take a stand for them and live and act by them in the public
> >>arena as well as our personal lives, or we do not. I realise that it is
> >>possible to spend too much time thinking and not enough time doing, but
> >>the speed at which a relatively few people seem to be moving with this,
> >>without broad and deep reflection and a level of consensus within the
> >>permaculture community as a whole, is making me feel that they are *not
> >>*reflecting what I feel permaculture is about, and are not likely to
> >>build something that I can stand by. To me, a thoughtfully, consciously
> >>designed permaculture presence in politics could be a good thing.
> >>However, I have serious doubts about whether or not I could bring myself
> >>to vote for or support a permaculture party developed in the way things
> >>seem to be evolving at present.
> >>
> >>cheers,
> >>
> >>Kerry Dawborn.
> >>
> >>Martin Naylor wrote:
> >> > Hi Martin,
> >> >
> >> > You may as well see what groups around the world think - and direct
> >> > them to
> >> > the PRI forum for discussions...
> >> >
> >> > Hey and you're a U2 fan too!
> >> > I like a lot of music the greatest band ever is The Moody Blues
> >> >
> >> > i sent one to permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com
> >> > <mailto:permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com>, I'll track a few more down,
> >> > if anyone as a list it would save a bit of time
> >> > Martin
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Business men drink my wine Proud men dig my earth
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > Yahoo!7 Mail has just got even bigger and better with unlimited
> >> > storage on all webmail accounts. Find out more
> >> > <http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html>.
> >> > 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
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