[Pil-pc-oceania] PPP? meeting October 31st Melbourne

Tue Jul 10 14:59:03 EST 2007

Does anyone have some ideas for a place to hold the PPP? meeting on October 
31st. I have been having a look around melbourne and the venues are all 
pretty expensive, even the trades hall bar (Paddy has left, so no freebie 
there).

Could we hold it in a suburban or even country hall?

This is also a call for helpers - no idea what roles yet...

Much love,
Tamara

Tamara Griffiths
39 Wattle Tree Road
Bunyip
Victoria 3815
03 5629 5918
0407 45 7707
scarletwoman at hotmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boodicusducky/

"Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi

'The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do 
nothing." Edmund Burke

>From: "tamara griffiths" <scarletwoman at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: permacultue discussion 
>list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
>To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP, flying blind and type 1 errors
>Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:43:52 +0000
>
>
>There are types of errors?
>
>Uh oh.
>
>Stay tuned for 2 thru 10. and then 10 thru 20 :)
>
>
>Tamara
>
>
>Tamara Griffiths
>39 Wattle Tree Road
>Bunyip
>Victoria 3815
>03 5629 5918
>0407 45 7707
>scarletwoman at hotmail.com
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/boodicusducky/
>
>"Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi
>
>'The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do
>nothing." Edmund Burke
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "timwinton" <timwinton at internode.on.net>
> >Reply-To: permacultue discussion
> >list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> >To: "permacultue discussion
> >list"<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP, flying blind and type 1 errors
> >Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:45:13 +1000
> >
> >Hi Tamara,
> >
> >Discussion should take place anywhere and I don't think anyone should 
>seek
> >to limit this.
> >
> >Decision making is another thing. For something that will impact all
> >permaculturists, decisions should be made democratically in 
>democratically
> >controlled organizations.
> >
> >With all due respect, if you are "flying blind" then it would be better 
>to
> >start back at conversations and dialogue, move to consensus building, 
>then
> >to decision making about whether or not a ppp is a good idea.
> >
> >Jumping in blind at starting a ppp seems to me like a Type 1 error.
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >
> >Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "tamara griffiths" <scarletwoman at hotmail.com>
> >To: <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> >Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 7:01 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP
> >
> >
> > > Hi Kerry,
> > >
> > > There is a valid concern that has been raised several times about the
> > > impact
> > > that a permaculture political party will have on the wider 
>permaculture
> > > community and i think it needs to be discussed in depth and often.
> > >
> > > Lets start. Lets raise point by point and discuss them. I'll start 
>with
> > > one
> > > raised in a private email.
> > >
> > > Will a permaculture political party have an effect on Permaculture
> > > organisation applying for grants?
> > >
> > > ?????
> > >
> > >
> > > As for "a few people deciding for the rest of us", I disagree that I
> >(and
> > > one or two others) have decided that there should be a party 
>regardless
> >of
> > > other permies. However, if any permies feel that they could not vote 
>for
> > > one
> > > being developed in the way things are at the moment, this is a 
>problem.
> > > Please direct me. I haven't convened a Political party before, much 
>less
> >a
> > > permaculture based one. I am flying blind and I need guidance. I may 
>be
> > > the
> > > wrong person to convene the party. Would you like to help me Kerry,
> >guide
> > > me?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To allay some fears, a party needs 500 members to even register. We 
>are
> >a
> > > long way off that number at the moment. In fact we are a long way off
> > > 50!!!
> > > We are a long way off even being able to legally form.
> > >
> > > Reflection comes after an action, such as floating the idea of a 
>party.
> >I
> > > believe we are in observation and reflection mode at the moment.
> >Observing
> > > reactions, ideas, emotions, more ideas. Great. Lets keep doing it.
> > >
> > > Should I continue planning a meeting on the 31st of October in
> >Melbourne,
> > > another forum to discuss the idea? I have been collecting questions 
>and
> > > topics to dicuss on the night. This is indeed one of them. Do we need
> >for
> > > time to observe and discuss the idea of a PPP? How many people can
> >decide
> > > to
> > > form it? 500? 1000?
> > >
> > > Lots of people have expressed happiness and relief with the idea of a
> > > party,
> > > as well as dismay, anger, caution.
> > >
> > > Regarding my (over?) exuberance at the idea Martin tell the world 
>about
> >a
> > > PPP, permaculture reaches far beyond Australia and many people around
> >the
> > > world have probably already read about a PPP on the forums. And is it
> > > really
> > > not ok to talk about an idea and to direct any body interested to the
> >PRI
> > > forum for discussions?
> > >
> > > I am interested in what form the party will take. We need two office
> > > bearers, a secretary to which all correspondence is directed and a
> > > registered officer that deals with membership. After that, it is all 
>up
> > > for
> > > discussion.
> > >
> > > So.
> > >
> > > Will we form a party? How do we form a party if we decide to form one?
> > >
> > > How will it look, act, respond, are there structures? are structures
> > > necessary?
> > >
> > > Will we actually stand anyone for election? How will we chose them?
> > >
> > > What will our policies be?
> > >
> > > Help me, I do want to do this properly,
> > > Tamara
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tamara Griffiths
> > > 39 Wattle Tree Road
> > > Bunyip
> > > Victoria 3815
> > > 03 5629 5918
> > > 0407 45 7707
> > > scarletwoman at hotmail.com
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/boodicusducky/
> > >
> > > "Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi
> > >
> > > 'The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do
> > > nothing." Edmund Burke
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: kerry dawborn <kdawborn at bigpond.com>
> > >>Reply-To: permacultue discussion
> > >>list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> > >>To: permacultue discussion
> > >>list<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> > >>Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] PPP
> > >>Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 10:02:09 +1000
> > >>
> > >>I'm a bit concerned about the speed at which things regarding the idea
> > >>of a PPP are moving - I think it's easy to overlook the fact that
> > >>whatever is done regarding something as big and public as a 
>permaculture
> > >>involvement in politics is going to affect and reflect on the entire
> > >>permaculture community, and the way it is perceived, and continues to 
>be
> > >>received, in the wider community. Personally I would like there to be
> > >>far more reflection and discussion within the Australian community
> > >>before taking the idea of a PPP to the international community, or
> > >>before other steps are taken.
> > >>
> > >>This is a huge thing. It could have deep ramifications for 
>permaculture
> > >>on multiple levels far into the future. It may or may not be a good
> > >>idea, but right now it feels to me as if a few people have just 
>decided
> > >>for the rest of us, to go for it, and are doing so in a manner that
> > >>seems to completely ignore the principle of small steps, observation 
>and
> > >>reflection that is at the core of permaculture design methodology. It
> > >>seems to me to bode very poorly for the integrity of a Permaculture
> > >>People's Party, if it does not even in how it is created, follow and
> > >>demonstrate permaculture design principles. I can understand that 
>there
> > >>may be a sense of urgency because we have a federal election on the 
>way,
> > >>things in the world are worrying and it will be a while before there's
> > >>another federal election. However, I believe a development as 
>important
> > >>as a formal entry into politics needs to be carefully thought out and
> > >>should not be undertaken in haste, throwing central ideas in
> > >>permaculture to the wind, for the sake of short term expediency.
> > >>
> > >>We either believe in the basic ideas that are central in permaculture
> > >>and want to take a stand for them and live and act by them in the 
>public
> > >>arena as well as our personal lives, or we do not. I realise that it 
>is
> > >>possible to spend too much time thinking and not enough time doing, 
>but
> > >>the speed at which a relatively few people seem to be moving with 
>this,
> > >>without broad and deep reflection and a level of consensus within the
> > >>permaculture community as a whole, is making me feel that they are 
>*not
> > >>*reflecting what I feel permaculture is about, and are not likely to
> > >>build something that I can stand by. To me, a thoughtfully, 
>consciously
> > >>designed permaculture presence in politics could be a good thing.
> > >>However, I have serious doubts about whether or not I could bring 
>myself
> > >>to vote for or support a permaculture party developed in the way 
>things
> > >>seem to be evolving at present.
> > >>
> > >>cheers,
> > >>
> > >>Kerry Dawborn.
> > >>
> > >>Martin Naylor wrote:
> > >> > Hi Martin,
> > >> >
> > >> > You may as well see what groups around the world think - and direct
> > >> > them to
> > >> > the PRI forum for discussions...
> > >> >
> > >> > Hey and you're a U2 fan too!
> > >> > I like a lot of music the greatest band ever is The Moody Blues
> > >> >
> > >> > i sent one to permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com
> > >> > <mailto:permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com>, I'll track a few more 
>down,
> > >> > if anyone as a list it would save a bit of time
> > >> > Martin
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Business men drink my wine Proud men dig my earth
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > Yahoo!7 Mail has just got even bigger and better with unlimited
> > >> > storage on all webmail accounts. Find out more
> > >> > <http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html>.
> > >> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
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> > >> >
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