[Pil-pc-oceania] Jim's Permaculture

[Linda Shewan]

I am starting to feel quite anxious about the direction of this thread.
This conversation is becoming like mainstream medicine saying that herbs
are not scientifically proven to do good and therefore must be
restricted... we know where this is getting us with Codex etc. Do we
want to start behaving like corporations and going to any means to
protect our 'brand'!

And who would have the right to implement such a system - I thought the
word permaculture was deliberately NOT Copyrighted or Trademarked - or
am I wrong? This means anyone can use it - and everyone that has
completed a PDC has the right to call themselves a Permaculture
Designer. If someone has very high expectations as stated in previous
posts then I am sure they will check qualifications, reference sites etc
before they make a decision to hire someone. If there is another
available permaculture designer with more credentials then those that
can afford the more experienced, and thus more expensive, options will.

Permaculture started with people doing a PDC then getting on with it...
sure, some had more formal training, some didn't. 
When I stated on another list that I like would a space for design
critiques - so experienced designers can critique beginners designs and
thus help drive permaculture forward faster - the clear response was -
don't be scared, just do it. Charge a small amount to start and then
increase it as your experience grows. I imagine that is where many of
our most experienced permaculture designers started as well. 

What it seems to me that a number of people are saying is that because I
do not have other formal landscaping or horticultural training or a
formal Permaculture Diploma that I have no right to DO IT as a PDC is
worthless. I simply don't believe that and I also believe that the
projects I am working on would be vastly less without the skills I
learnt at the PDC. 

I think being fixated with our industrial educational mindset is just
not very forward thinking. I want my children out of the system that
tells them they are not capable of achieving anything without a degree
or some other piece of paper. They are capable of anything they put
their mind to. 

If the Jims guys want to do a good job, they will. If they don't, they
won't get any more clients. 

Most of the concern seems to come from the mainstream exposure that
Jim's has - but this works to our advantage as well. Jim must have been
inspired to move on this, or possibly he is just forward thinking enough
to be planning his future after lawns. Regardless - that's Jim out there
acknowledging on air that people need to get rid of their lawns! Plenty
of inexperienced designers have done 'less than perfect' designs and
implementations in the past but even so permaculture grows and grows. 

Sorry to be so passionate but I would really hate permaculture to move
from a 'lets do it' people's movement to an elitist structure that says
you can only do it if we say so!

Linda


-----Original Message-----
From: kerry dawborn [mailto:kdawborn at bigpond.com] 
Sent: Friday, 13 July 2007 8:53 AM
To: permacultue discussion list
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Jim's Permaculture

Reading all the posts with concerns and support for Jim's Permaculture, 
I wonder if one way to get around some of the concerns would be to 
implement some kind of apprenticeship program such that both during and 
after the completion of training, the Jims (or Janes?) must complete a 
certain (serious) amount of supervised practical experience in all areas

in which they are qualified to operate. I'm thinking a year or two here 
or at least a year, anyway, in the same way that plumbers and other 
building workers are required to do.

Given that from a commercial point of view this could put a lot of Jims 
and Janes off doing permaculture or make it unviable, perhaps there 
could be different grades in terms of what they are qualified to do for 
their clients. Ie: perhaps those who have only done a pdc or whatever 
basic level of permaculture training (depending of course on their prior

experience and learning for which there would need to be a system for 
recognition), could be licenced/qualified to offer basic vegie garden 
design and maintenance, while others who have completed training and or 
proven experience in other areas could do more. It could be a graduated 
system that makes it clear to the general public and clients that 
Permaculture is about much more than just a vegie plot and a couple of 
fruit trees, but allows both clients and 'Jims' to enter at different 
levels. Perhaps this could work without compromising the integrity of 
permaculture and the general understanding of what it is about. I think 
this might need for there to be some sort of supervising body - perhaps 
something like the Master Builder's Association or some other 
recognised, independent(?) body with whom practitioners could be 
registered at appropriate levels, so that clients could have some 
guidance about their qualifications etc...

Obviously the various existing permaculture qualifications already offer

some guidance as to a practitioner's ability to do the job, perhaps it 
could simply be a case of formalising recognition of the learning and 
experience the Jims can demonstrate, according to agreed criteria, and 
offering clear accreditation levels that reflect these

just some thoughts - hope they make a bit of sense...

cheers,

Kerry



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