[Pil-pc-oceania] Jim's Permaculture

[Terry Leahy]

Dear Permaculturists,

Tend to agree with Linda a bit about this.  It would be great if lots
more people did the apts that some have worked so hard to make available
and you certainly would know your way around any backyard problem if you
did an apt CERT III or whatever.  And you could still be a bit
amateurish with the PDC depending on your background and the other kinds
of info you have to bring to this.  Nonetheless I cannot say that I am
greatly worried for our reputation if people with PDCs are rushing about
doing their best to transform backyards for paying punters.  Sure, a few
will do a few silly things that don't work but overall I think it
unlikely that any real harm will be caused - and in most cases I think
people's gardens will be very positively transformed by this assistance.
 Also, you would have to say that the participation of the Colemans in
this enterprise means that there is always someone to ring up to ask
questions who can have the answer or tell you who does.  My own feeling
about all this is that it is still early days in so far as people are
not really going to start growing a vast proportion of their food in the
suburbs until we get the necessity to do so.  On the other hand, what we
can achieve is a broadening of the skill level in the community so there
is more chance of this transition working when it has to.  I see an
enterprise like this as doing that.  Another thing is that planting
fruit and nut trees in backyards cannot happen too soon.  Yes, probably
at least half will die for a hundred and one reasons but the sooner we
get more of them in the ground the better.  At any rate this is how I
look at it.  As I said in another context, walk down your average
suburban street and work out how many people have got frog ponds in
their gardens,  probably one in 50 would be optimistic,

Terry

>>> Linda Shewan <linda.shewan at bryn.com.au> Friday, 13 July 2007 11:25
am >>>
I am starting to feel quite anxious about the direction of this
thread.
This conversation is becoming like mainstream medicine saying that
herbs
are not scientifically proven to do good and therefore must be
restricted... we know where this is getting us with Codex etc. Do we
want to start behaving like corporations and going to any means to
protect our 'brand'!

And who would have the right to implement such a system - I thought
the
word permaculture was deliberately NOT Copyrighted or Trademarked - or
am I wrong? This means anyone can use it - and everyone that has
completed a PDC has the right to call themselves a Permaculture
Designer. If someone has very high expectations as stated in previous
posts then I am sure they will check qualifications, reference sites
etc
before they make a decision to hire someone. If there is another
available permaculture designer with more credentials then those that
can afford the more experienced, and thus more expensive, options
will.

Permaculture started with people doing a PDC then getting on with
it...
sure, some had more formal training, some didn't. 
When I stated on another list that I like would a space for design
critiques - so experienced designers can critique beginners designs
and
thus help drive permaculture forward faster - the clear response was -
don't be scared, just do it. Charge a small amount to start and then
increase it as your experience grows. I imagine that is where many of
our most experienced permaculture designers started as well. 

What it seems to me that a number of people are saying is that because
I
do not have other formal landscaping or horticultural training or a
formal Permaculture Diploma that I have no right to DO IT as a PDC is
worthless. I simply don't believe that and I also believe that the
projects I am working on would be vastly less without the skills I
learnt at the PDC. 

I think being fixated with our industrial educational mindset is just
not very forward thinking. I want my children out of the system that
tells them they are not capable of achieving anything without a degree
or some other piece of paper. They are capable of anything they put
their mind to. 

If the Jims guys want to do a good job, they will. If they don't, they
won't get any more clients. 

Most of the concern seems to come from the mainstream exposure that
Jim's has - but this works to our advantage as well. Jim must have
been
inspired to move on this, or possibly he is just forward thinking
enough
to be planning his future after lawns. Regardless - that's Jim out
there
acknowledging on air that people need to get rid of their lawns!
Plenty
of inexperienced designers have done 'less than perfect' designs and
implementations in the past but even so permaculture grows and grows. 

Sorry to be so passionate but I would really hate permaculture to move
from a 'lets do it' people's movement to an elitist structure that
says
you can only do it if we say so!

Linda