[Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture Trade Directory - No hoo-haa!

[Deb Guildner]

Dear List,

What with all this about who's better, who's best talk, I have decided it 
might be a pertinent time for me to venture forth and compile/publish an 
Ausralia-wide Permaculture Trade directory.

All I seem able to do these days is write, so let's put something together 
so that prospective employers/consumers of our services can choose (and pay 
for) the level of expertise etc they require.

All permies who want work can list for free,
advertisers (providers) of material goods will be sought too pay for initial 
print run.

You can chose or not to list qualifications, its obvious clients will hire 
who they can afford.

Teaching services inclusive!

Who's first? Don't be shy!

Cheers
Deb
Holed up in a hole in the wall of Adelaide like a two-legged rat (with a 
laptop).
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linda Shewan" <linda.shewan at bryn.com.au>
To: "permacultue discussion list" 
<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Jim's Permaculture


>I am starting to feel quite anxious about the direction of this thread.
> This conversation is becoming like mainstream medicine saying that herbs
> are not scientifically proven to do good and therefore must be
> restricted... we know where this is getting us with Codex etc. Do we
> want to start behaving like corporations and going to any means to
> protect our 'brand'!
>
> And who would have the right to implement such a system - I thought the
> word permaculture was deliberately NOT Copyrighted or Trademarked - or
> am I wrong? This means anyone can use it - and everyone that has
> completed a PDC has the right to call themselves a Permaculture
> Designer. If someone has very high expectations as stated in previous
> posts then I am sure they will check qualifications, reference sites etc
> before they make a decision to hire someone. If there is another
> available permaculture designer with more credentials then those that
> can afford the more experienced, and thus more expensive, options will.
>
> Permaculture started with people doing a PDC then getting on with it...
> sure, some had more formal training, some didn't.
> When I stated on another list that I like would a space for design
> critiques - so experienced designers can critique beginners designs and
> thus help drive permaculture forward faster - the clear response was -
> don't be scared, just do it. Charge a small amount to start and then
> increase it as your experience grows. I imagine that is where many of
> our most experienced permaculture designers started as well.
>
> What it seems to me that a number of people are saying is that because I
> do not have other formal landscaping or horticultural training or a
> formal Permaculture Diploma that I have no right to DO IT as a PDC is
> worthless. I simply don't believe that and I also believe that the
> projects I am working on would be vastly less without the skills I
> learnt at the PDC.
>
> I think being fixated with our industrial educational mindset is just
> not very forward thinking. I want my children out of the system that
> tells them they are not capable of achieving anything without a degree
> or some other piece of paper. They are capable of anything they put
> their mind to.
>
> If the Jims guys want to do a good job, they will. If they don't, they
> won't get any more clients.
>
> Most of the concern seems to come from the mainstream exposure that
> Jim's has - but this works to our advantage as well. Jim must have been
> inspired to move on this, or possibly he is just forward thinking enough
> to be planning his future after lawns. Regardless - that's Jim out there
> acknowledging on air that people need to get rid of their lawns! Plenty
> of inexperienced designers have done 'less than perfect' designs and
> implementations in the past but even so permaculture grows and grows.
>
> Sorry to be so passionate but I would really hate permaculture to move
> from a 'lets do it' people's movement to an elitist structure that says
> you can only do it if we say so!
>
> Linda
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kerry dawborn [mailto:kdawborn at bigpond.com]
> Sent: Friday, 13 July 2007 8:53 AM
> To: permacultue discussion list
> Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Jim's Permaculture
>
> Reading all the posts with concerns and support for Jim's Permaculture,
> I wonder if one way to get around some of the concerns would be to
> implement some kind of apprenticeship program such that both during and
> after the completion of training, the Jims (or Janes?) must complete a
> certain (serious) amount of supervised practical experience in all areas
>
> in which they are qualified to operate. I'm thinking a year or two here
> or at least a year, anyway, in the same way that plumbers and other
> building workers are required to do.
>
> Given that from a commercial point of view this could put a lot of Jims
> and Janes off doing permaculture or make it unviable, perhaps there
> could be different grades in terms of what they are qualified to do for
> their clients. Ie: perhaps those who have only done a pdc or whatever
> basic level of permaculture training (depending of course on their prior
>
> experience and learning for which there would need to be a system for
> recognition), could be licenced/qualified to offer basic vegie garden
> design and maintenance, while others who have completed training and or
> proven experience in other areas could do more. It could be a graduated
> system that makes it clear to the general public and clients that
> Permaculture is about much more than just a vegie plot and a couple of
> fruit trees, but allows both clients and 'Jims' to enter at different
> levels. Perhaps this could work without compromising the integrity of
> permaculture and the general understanding of what it is about. I think
> this might need for there to be some sort of supervising body - perhaps
> something like the Master Builder's Association or some other
> recognised, independent(?) body with whom practitioners could be
> registered at appropriate levels, so that clients could have some
> guidance about their qualifications etc...
>
> Obviously the various existing permaculture qualifications already offer
>
> some guidance as to a practitioner's ability to do the job, perhaps it
> could simply be a case of formalising recognition of the learning and
> experience the Jims can demonstrate, according to agreed criteria, and
> offering clear accreditation levels that reflect these
>
> just some thoughts - hope they make a bit of sense...
>
> cheers,
>
> Kerry
>
>
>
>>
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