[Pil-pc-oceania] Jims permaculture

[David Arnold]

Thanks Pamela for this interesting and passionate post, and for sticking
with the task of explaining your views over a number of posts.

It has been good to hear from you and Ian Lillington, that you both see
the two educational streams of either PDC with 2 years applied and mentored
work, or the newer APT path [and the even newer developments in academia
that you mention], as complementary.

Ian mentioned the problem in Australia that we do not have an established
practice of mentoring the work of people after they complete their PDC.
Which contributed to his motivation to help develop the more structured APT
path.

Perhaps the training of Jim's Permies will move across to Cert III in
future, or perhaps this development will prompt the introduction of more
structured mentoring for PDC graduates.  Perhaps those involved in training
Jim's Permies will take up this challenge.

I personally do not feel particularly anxious that Permaculture will be
devalued or 'bastardised' by Jim's Permies.  To some extent this is
inevitable anyway, and has been happening for years through different
interpretations of what Permaculture is.  Look at all the uses of the word
'sustainable', to the extent that we have had such bastardised applications
as Dept of Ag notes on sustainable chemical application, sustainable this,
sustainable that.  But the quality of work and of thought in the
sustainability field has maintained some useful meaning for the word.

I think the most important way to maintain the intellectual credibility of
Permacultute design and thinking is not to limit the access to or use of the
word, but to maintain the quality of thought and action by experienced
permaculture practitioners.

Receivers of Jims Permaculture services, if they start down the permie path,
will soon realise, "Gee, there is a bit to this."  !  Which may prompt
further enquiry.

Regards,

David





On 16/07/07, pamela <serendipity at picknowl.com.au> wrote:

> G'day all,
> Seems I am a few posts behind, sorry I am just catching up again.
>
> There are very different points of view which are all valid and worthwhile
> re the discussion. I am wondering, however, if we are talking about the
> same
> thing.
>
> We are all speaking from our own perspectives of course, some of us in the
> profession of design and others not.
> For the benefit of those that are not making their living from the
> profession of design, landscape and garden design is practiced and taught
> around Australia in the main, in the traditional sense of those words.
> Unfortunately there is very little focus on garden performance, it has
> been
> and still is predicated on aesthetic.
> What permaculture brings to the profession is a balanced holistic view on
> the performance of space, i.e productivity, shade, shelter, privacy,
> protection, habitat and biodiversity based upon a strong guideline of
> principals and ethics. To import 'sustainable' units to the training of
> these professions and ignore and indeed recognize legitimately within
> academia the important contribution that permaculture has made (ie.
> 'stamp'
> or 'label' permaculture and call it by that thing) is quite simply a
> crime.
> It is a NEW thing that permaculture is recognized with Academic circles
> and
> ACCEPTED as a legitimate means of contributing to the training of
> para-professionals and professionals ( in the true academic sense of the
> word) is HUGE!!!!!!!
>
> Its all very well and ( I really mean that in that sense) that
> permaculture
> be built (as it had to be) from the ground up but there is a movement to
> meet it half way from a 'top down approach'. BOTH ARE LEGITIMATE AND
> NECESSARY, and the means in which it is done needs to ENSURE that the word
> 'permaculture' is not bastardized in the process by (albeit) well meaning
> but under-trained practitioners. (Jims) who I believe will be the FIRST OF
> MANY. This is not a slur on the training they would get from the Colbys,
> who
> in their right mind who knows what these people do would suggest that.
> This
> is a statement about the LEVEL of RECOGNISED ACCREDITED TRAINING that they
> receive.
>
> You simply can not have an APT accredited training program in place, make
> ground with it, build its cred and then ignore it because some group does
> not want to do the hard yards! Regardless of who is doing the training and
> how exceptional that may be.  A PDC training varies markedly throughout
> the
> country depending on who is doing the training. Its just not reliable
> enough
> to use it as a 'designers' qualification. ( in the sense of someone who is
> making their living as a 'designer') OTHER THAN, experiential training
> (which is much harder to quantify) but needs to have a certain limit
> applied
> ie the two years Ian was talking about!
>
> Either or would be good, higher qual or 2 years minimum in the field.
>
> I hope this puts to rest some of the posts from fabulous practitioners in
> the field with great reputations well deserved. It is by no means a slur
> we
> are talking about an AS WELL AS not an INSTEAD OF criteria.
>
> Kind regards, Pam
>
>
> Pamela Gurner-Hall
> Lecturer TAFESA and Uni of Adelaide
> Sustainable Design Studio ( South)
> Landscape Designer and Horticultural Consultant
> P.O Box 1054
> Aldinga Beach 5173
> phone 0419 213 237
>
>
>
>
>
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> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
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>



-- 
David Arnold
Permaculture Designer
4446 Murchison Rd
Violet Town VIC AUS 3669
03 5798 1679
arnold.vt at gmail.com
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