[Pil-pc-oceania] Pil-pc-oceania Digest, Vol 9, Issue 51
Colin Ball
colball at aapt.net.au
Fri Jul 20 14:02:39 EST 2007
Hi,
I was listening to the presentation by Helena Norberg-Hodge from the 4th
Annual City Farm and Community Gardens Conference. She vividly describes the
globalised corporate led consumerism occuring and encourages people to keep
in mind the big picture. Conversely she encourages the Re-Localisation
Movement as an alternative. I agree with Russ (a few posts ago) that this
conversation has yet to be developed in Australia. In fact if you go to
http://relocalise.net you'll only find 6 sites in Australia at Kuranda,
Burnett Inland, Sunshine Coast, Cedar Vale (Qld after Oil) and Maleny, all
in Qld,and Northern Rivers in NSW. It strikes me why more permaculture
organisations in Australia aren't onto this yet?
On the bigger picture the Journal of Australian Political Economy,
www.jape.org in its latest edition, No 59 publishes an article by
Christopher Doran, a PhD candidate in the Sociology Department at Macquarie
University, entitled, "A Militarised Neo-Liberalism, Australian Economic
Politics In Iraq". Doran exposes the Australian govt's role in the
Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA)set up after the invasion in 2003 to
administer Iraq. Australia's role was reserved for restructuring Iraq's
agricultural sector. As well as other nefarious activities the Australian
govt was "directly responsible for one of the most extreme of the CPA
economic laws, Order 81, which introduced a system of monopoly patent rights
over seeds."
Well worth knowing this sort of stuff as this is the same crew who make
orders over us. I don't raise this in despair as I like David Holmgren's
description of self reliance strategies as "amorphous, informal and
invisible", that "undermines dysfunctional economic systems", "confounds
them and resists subversion". We need many, many more. By the way what has
happened to discussing the Permaculture Australia concept to promote some
sort of peak discussion forum for broad Permaculture action? Dare I say,
policy. Whatever any outcomes of a PPP may yet be (or not be)there is more
than enough room for some rigorous debate about post-Modern Chaos.
Regards Colin.
-----Original Message-----
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Contact Details (pacific-edge)
2. Please take me off the list (Robert Scalzo)
3. APC9 (permaculture at apollobay.org.au)
4. ACFCGN annual conference (Ian Lillington)
5. Permaculture Trade (Resource) Directory: print issues
(Deb Guildner)
6. Permaculture Trade Directory: print issues (Deb Guildner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:34:23 +1000
From: pacific-edge <info at pacific-edge.info>
Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Contact Details
To: pil <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
Message-ID: <C2C57B4F.2DF5%info at pacific-edge.info>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Sympathy.
...Russ
On 19/7/07 3:12 PM, "SEED International" <info at seedinternational.com.au>
wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> I have just experienced a MAJOR computer crash and have lost just
> about everything - some of my work was backed up, but not everything
> on my computer - big mistake!!!
> One thing I'm missing in particular is my address book.
> I am sending out a request for people to send me their email and
> other contact details so I can restore at least some of my contact
> with the outside world.
> I am really looking forward to hearing from you!
> Kind regards,
> Morag Gamble
>
>
> MORAG GAMBLE
> SEED International: Sustainability Education and Ecological Design
> 50 Crystal Waters, Kilcoy Lane, Conondale QLD 4552
> 07 5494 4833
> www.SEEDinternational.com.au
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:54:20 +1000
From: "Robert Scalzo" <robscalzo at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Please take me off the list
To: Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
Message-ID: <BAY135-F21E2CCD06C04E93338A34CB8FB0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Thanks guys/gals. Going away and dont want to be inundated when I get back.
_________________________________________________________________
Movie session times on Messenger - add Movie Scout today!
http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=785&referr
al=hotmailtagline0707&URL=http://www.yourmovies.com.au/messenger/signup/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:19:37 -0400
From: "permaculture at apollobay.org.au" <permaculture at apollobay.org.au>
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] APC9
To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
Message-ID: <380-220077419131937137 at M2W011.mail2web.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Some straight forward comments & questions from Fern:
I'd like PN to be a more open and inclusive of what's being planned for
APC9.
Why isn't it being discussed on list?
In my opinion it would be good if PIL had a forum site (like PRI's
discussion forum), rather than a listserv, then you can check what you
want, when you want... and not have your inbox full of listserv.
To get a good approximation of numbers coming to APC9, perhaps PN can ask
on list (& on PRI 's forum) and also ask other bioregional groups to tell
their members about it and to get an indication of who would be likely to
go. I think this convergence is going to be big... much bigger than
Melbourne's one.
What were the dates again?
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 00:52:50 +0950
From: "Ian Lillington" <livpermaculture at internode.on.net>
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] ACFCGN annual conference
To: permacultue discussion list
<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
Message-ID: <469f81ca.2a2.555.32724 at internode.on.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks Fiona
does anyone know where the next conference will be? and
when? it could be close to the APC 9 - important that dates
are complementary, not exclusive - eg could they be
back-to-back? [I have an enquiry from the UK assistant
director of Fed of city farms and community gardens , who
could possible come out for these events]
ian Lillington
> 4th Annual Australian City Farms and Community Gardens
> conference 2007 Audio
> and presentations (keynote?s only) are now available for
> download from the CERES website:
>
>
> www.ceres.org.au/community/conference.htm
>
>
> ..Fiona
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
>
http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:02:04 +0930
From: "Deb Guildner" <bocor at bigbutton.com.au>
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture Trade (Resource) Directory:
print issues
To: "permacultue discussion list"
<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
Message-ID: <004001c7ca54$c8499e80$3c9e06ca at deborahly2acqi>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Thankyou for the response below, and well said.
(If ppl write off list, unless otherwise specified, their name is private)
I think there is room for all three formats for the directory:
a softcover hardcopy, a CD equivalent, and a website.
I am compiling a list of PC related websites presently.
All three are fine..the idea is to achieve total saturation of the potential
market.
............................................................................
..............................
[A word of warning on the world wide web though....
look what just happened to our be-lavered PM:
(Courtesy of Crikey.com, Wednesday, 18 July 2007):
"When Prime Minister John Howard lost his YouTube virginity yesterday
morning, he probably didn't expect a search of his name to rank his
two-minute long piece behind videos entitled "John Howard is a farting
fossil fuel" and "John Howard downloads some p-rn".
But such are the hazards of the undisciplined, uncontrolled and unfiltered
online environment. You enter at your peril, Mr PM, and can't chose your
bedfellows. We tried to find yesterday's video announcing his position on
climate change. We searched, as you would, for ''John Howard''. Here are the
search results on page one: Can't see Howard's video. Understandable, it
has only been out for a day, it probably hasn't received enough hits to rank
on the first page. Next... Nope, not on page two either. Well there's
Labor's response below, "John Howard Asleep on Climate Change",
it ranks high enough to make page number three.
Where, oh where, is Howard's video? Is that it at the bottom left-hand
corner.
Looks promising...nope, false alarm, it's a parody.
There it is! Hint: It's called "Prime Minister John Howard climate..."
*Click* " Labor gets the net. John Howard doesn't. In fact, he even manages
to reinforce Labor's silly old fart message in his YouTube performance.]
Buyer beware, John!
............................................................................
............................
On the subject of paper use and its alter ego, the state of the nation's
forests:
Yes, most forestry in Oz has been unsustainable at best, and it is
increasingly coming under scrutiny for that reason.
It has been hard to compete with the 15 year tax haven granted to private
companies, but still, some plantation companies have managed to go fut..
We have a pulp mill fiasco brewing here in SE SA (and Gunns just made a
failed bid for Auspine- lol), but it is actually the unsustainable DESIGN of
plantations that is the major problem.
It seems that they build a mill, then say,
'oh, now we need to double the area under plantation to make the mill
viable'.
At a meeting apropos woodchipping 8 years ago on South Coast NSW,
a sawmiller moaned: 'If we dont send trees to the chipmill then it isnt
viable
to get the sawlogs out'.
Strangely, most sawmills have gone fut, but hey! not the chipmill.
Blinky leaked me a doc that said the logging contractors are paid cash at
the
gate of the chipmill, but have to wait weeks after delivering logs to get
money
from the sawmill. Where's the incentive there?
These contractors must have high overheads....
FOE has been working on raising awarenes of the need to raise the industry
standard, while saving native forests has been a priority for them and other
NGO's. Australia has a woeful 'industry standard'.
In wholistic terms, it means nothing.
Australia should contain itself to domestic pulp supply, not export, but try
telling that to Gunns and those overseas companies who see us as ripe for
the resource....all that land underexploited, that's how ppl from o's often
see Australia.
Forestry issues have not yet gone away, but our native forests almost have.
CSIRO, however, is pioneering some newer (variety of near extinct native
species) plantations in the North NSW=SE QLD area, as well as buiding new
related infrastructure, to revamp our native forest industry which itself
became extinct due to overlogging. Compare their approach to the one above.
It is true to say that Australia has never really had a well managed
forestry industry, but some old timers say that in some areas, we did, but
it later became out of control, due to short term greed. However, when one
disturbs a native forest by removing big old trees, one must then go back
and thin the regrowth. This has been a very rare activity in our native
forests, the closest we have got is where they take out 85% of the forest
and send it to the chipmill. But after they have done that, it is an
absolute mess and they usually never go back.
Management techniques are non-existent. One concludes that state forestry
depts are just very bad businessmen, hell bent in the short term on totally
exploiting.a dwindling valuable natural resource. There can be no long term
land use plan under a regime like this......sad isnt it?
But good on you for raising an interesting point (I knew someone would!).
Perhaps later issues of the trade directory could be restricted to
supplementary information (new listings and necessary alterations of
existing ones).
And of course we will commit to using the cleanest, greenest
paper.....maybe.....not paper from trees......maybe bamboo!
Ther's no flies on us, but you can see where they've been!
Thanks again for yet another valuable contribution to the directory.
Bamboo to you!
Cheers,
Deb
PS: I still have almost every copy of Permaculture magazine.....just a
couple of early ones I think I don't have.
They are like gold to me.....I just dont have the same warm fuzzy attachment
to CD's ....yet......!
Books: you can take them anywhere and dont need a power source to read them!
Mmm-mmm-mmm!.
----- Original Message -----
To: <bocor at bigbutton.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture Trade (Resource) Directory
> Hi Deb,
>
> Has anyone suggested a web directory rather than hardcopy or even CD?
> Surely would be the most appropriate and accessible. Paid ads by
> designers doing well could pay for the website hosting - or perhaps
> someone with an existing website would agree to put it up on theirs.
>
> Then anyone searching for a designer should be able to find the
> directory through a search engine... and it could be updatable by actual
> designers themselves, on the fly so you wouldn't have to wait 2 years
> for the updated information. I know there are lots of these directory
> type web systems out there already.
>
> Re: the paper trail - from what I understand the plantations really
> don't cut it in sustainability - guzzling more water than you would
> believe. If they were sustainable plantations ie. planted, watered in
> and left then I would be ok with it, as it is...
>
> Cheers
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deb Guildner [mailto:bocor at bigbutton.com.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2007 8:53 AM
> To: permacultue discussion list
> Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture Trade (Resource) Directory
>
> Permaculture Trade Resource Directory
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am getting some great feedback off-list from interested parties, so
> thanks for these encouraging remarks, and for registering your interest
> (and
> your details).
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:10:11 +0930
From: "Deb Guildner" <bocor at bigbutton.com.au>
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture Trade Directory: print issues
To: "permacultue discussion list"
<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
Message-ID: <013801c7ca5e$267fe140$3c9e06ca at deborahly2acqi>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Thursday 18th July
NSW Greens Ebrief 186
IAN COHEN MLC
www.iancohen.org.au
The fortnight kicked off with a Stateline piece
about forestry issues, including the government'
crown land sell-off and private native forestry.
The issue of private native forestry has been
incredibly difficult to get recognised by the
media, so well done to all who worked hard on
getting this story up - let's hope the extra
pressure will result in a decent code of practice
being released in the next few weeks. Although
given the government's current record on the
environment, expectations are not great.
Link to private forestry article on Ian's website:
http://www.iancohen.org.au/mediarelease.aspx?id=275
------------------------------
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