[Pil-pc-oceania] Pil-pc-oceania Digest, Vol 5, Issue 22...Roto-loo
stevehart
stevehart at raglan.co.nz
Mon Mar 19 07:22:06 EST 2007
Roto-loo etc. etc
Julie as a designer and one who has explored sewage extensively and
found that manufacturers and engineers are clambering over each other
for an edge in this Gold-Chip industry.....there is a huge range of
options on the market and many are very expensive with a lot of
inefficiency.
I always refer back to Permaculture principles to suggest which is
the best resource use one can develop form any aspect we deal with
especially when we build. Blackwater to me is still the best way to
utilise the potential energy of human effluent. It is a resource not
a waste. Once we establish this principle we can then evolve all the
opportunities available. So if we recognise this and have the
avaialble water we can use this water very smartly, to grow leaf and
fruit species....because what blackwater is...is....nutrient rich
water. If you use water to irrigate why not use water to flush a
toilet and recognise the potential resources available to you. Of
course you can use as much or as little water as you want to flush.
You can purchase 4 litre cisterns or considerably larger. Yellow
water can be flush through the greywater system and off course this
is another major irrigation source.
So what technology is available to you.....numerous. The simplest is
a conventional septic tank with the key factor being the effluent
line. The best is a 1500mm wide x 600mm deep trench up to 20m long
using a "reln" pipe.
http://www.reln.com.au/product_info.php?pid=128&cid=2
Beyond this we can recognise the value of the methane in this system
as well, then extrapolate on how we can extend this science and
available potential....that opens up another chapter and another
variation to the design of your septic tank
So the key for me is to recognise the resource potential available to
you and explore.
Regards Steve Hart
On 18/03/2007, at 2:00 PM, pil-pc-oceania-
request at lists.permacultureinternational.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Roto-loo/clivus mulchrum feedback (Julie Firth)
> 2. Re: Roto-loo/clivus mulchrum feedback (timwinton)
> 3. Re: Pil-pc-oceania Digest, Vol 5, Issue 16 SUSTAINABLE
> BUILDING (P Ferguson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:21:17 +0900
> From: "Julie Firth" <yilgarn at midwest.com.au>
> Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Roto-loo/clivus mulchrum feedback
> To: <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <000c01c7683a$f2315660$6401a8c0 at EDSYF413CB4419>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> We are looking at purchasing a composting toilet system for use at
> the Drylands Permaculture Research Farm in Geraldton, Western
> Australia and would like to hear the cons from those already using
> them. As it will be in the public's eye we want an approved
> manufactured system that will convince people waterless toilets are
> clean and acceptable.
>
> I'd really appreciate feedback from people with operating Roto-loo
> composting toilet systems (and non-operating systems). Has anyone
> used or added the seperating pedestal? Did they make a difference
> to the composting speed or are they a marketing gimick? Are Roto-
> loo notorious for vinegar flies or is this something all composting
> toilets have..
>
> Has anyone out there tried both systems and ended up with a
> preference?
>
> Julie Firth
> Drylands Permaculture Nursery
> 333 David Rd, Waggrakine
> Geraldton, W.A. 6530
> Tel. +61 (0) 899 381 628
> www.permaculturenursery.com.au
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>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:49:36 +1100
> From: "timwinton" <timwinton at internode.on.net>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Roto-loo/clivus mulchrum feedback
> To: "Julie Firth" <yilgarn at midwest.com.au>,
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <012301c7683e$e7479e40$0401a8c0 at winton>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Julie,
>
> I have tried both and I don't really recommend either in terms of
> value for
> money. They both work, however the Roto-loo, in my experience here
> in the
> humid sub tropics, struggled to evaporate enough moisture to keep the
> compost aerobic and they don't seem to handle a very big capacity. The
> Clivus multrum works effectively, and we have used one at
> Permaforest Trust
> for nearly ten years now. We bought it because it was a council
> approved
> system. From memory it cost $2400 for the parts and then I had to
> construct
> a besa block chamber with platform on top to put the plastic
> composting
> chamber in and the dunni shack on. It took me a fair bit of labour
> to put
> the whole thing together as well. After I finished it, I realized I
> could
> have just used the besa block chamber and bought some flue pipe and
> other
> bits and pieces and it would have functioned just as effectively
> with half
> the cost. I have subsequently done this and my besa block
> composting toilet
> works just as well. The one thing I will say about the Clivus and
> Roto-loo
> is that they are rodent and fly proof (except if you leave the lid
> open) and
> this can be a very hard thing to achieve for novice builders of
> besa block
> type chambers. National Parks and the Road and Traffic Authority
> have chosen
> the Clivus Multrum as their preferred composting toilet system for
> public
> installations in this part of the world.
>
> If I ever build another system I would use a dual chamber type.
> This is
> essentially two Clivus sized chambers in the same dunni. One is
> active and
> one is moldering (composting slowly) after it is full. This solves the
> problem with the Clivus where composted material at the bottom of the
> chamber is continually saturated with fresh liquids from above. I
> have never
> thought that this was particularly good design as the 'compost'
> from the
> system is always a potential disease vector. With the dual chamber
> system
> the compost that comes out after 3 or 4 months of processing with
> out being
> the active chamber is fully broken down without any fresh urine ect
> in it.
> Also the dual chamber can handle twice the load and capacity and it
> seems
> that most of the composting systems I come across are constantly on
> the edge
> of being overloaded.
>
> If you are looking for ways to make composting toilets more
> palatable for
> the mainstream, then the dual chamber is much better as you are never
> dealing with fresh humanure, which seems to turn some folks off the
> Clivus.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Winton
> Permaforest Trust
> Lot 3 Hidden Valley Rd
> Barkers Vale, NSW
> Australia 2474
> phone +61 02 6689 7579
> fax +61 02 9225 9536
>
> www.permaforesttrust.org.au
>
> Offering Certificate 4 and Diploma
> in Accredited Permaculture Training
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julie Firth
> To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:21 PM
> Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Roto-loo/clivus mulchrum feedback
>
>
> We are looking at purchasing a composting toilet system for use
> at the
> Drylands Permaculture Research Farm in Geraldton, Western Australia
> and
> would like to hear the cons from those already using them. As it
> will be in
> the public's eye we want an approved manufactured system that will
> convince
> people waterless toilets are clean and acceptable.
>
> I'd really appreciate feedback from people with operating Roto-loo
> composting toilet systems (and non-operating systems). Has anyone
> used or
> added the seperating pedestal? Did they make a difference to the
> composting
> speed or are they a marketing gimick? Are Roto-loo notorious for
> vinegar
> flies or is this something all composting toilets have..
>
> Has anyone out there tried both systems and ended up with a
> preference?
>
> Julie Firth
> Drylands Permaculture Nursery
> 333 David Rd, Waggrakine
> Geraldton, W.A. 6530
> Tel. +61 (0) 899 381 628
> www.permaculturenursery.com.au
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:11:39 +1100
> From: "P Ferguson" <pennyfer at bigpond.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Pil-pc-oceania Digest, Vol 5, Issue 16
> SUSTAINABLE BUILDING
> To: <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <004001c7687c$a70f9c40$0100000a at home9agsgpio82>
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> reply-type=original
>
>> SUSTAINABLE BUILDING
>> Last Update: Friday, March 9, 2007. 3:46pm (AEDT)
>> Conservationist uses wine bottles to build energy-saving house
>
> Beer bottle walls were a feature of houses in the Coober Pedy Opal
> Fields in
> the 1960's. I seem to remember there was a whole house of bottles in
> Lightening Ridge NSW opal fields.
>
> ------------------
>
> Keith ... I accidentally deleted your bit about Broken Hill's power
> generation.
> Can you send me that please, or alternatively post it to the Broken
> Hill
> subject on www.illawarrarumournet.org.uk [note that is UK]
>
>
>
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>
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> End of Pil-pc-oceania Digest, Vol 5, Issue 22
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