[Pil-pc-oceania] Pil-pc-oceania Digest, Vol 13, Issue 33 Russ Grayson

[RussGrayson]

Hi Janet & others in this conversation...

On 22/11/07 1:34 PM, "Janet Millington" <miltech at bigpond.com> wrote
> Hi Russ and those following this strand,
> So, I think it is our Australian conference. And as it is Australian it
> should be called Australian.

That's ok with me. I was interested in exploring people's ideas on APCs,
not contesting the name of the event.

The reason for my interest in names, probably, has to do with the idea of
changing the name of PIL to something geographically appropriate. Good idea,
I think. Permaculture Australia Ltd?

> Then if an Australian permaculturist or pc organisation is working with an
> individual or group in the Pacific or in Asia or anywhere really, and they
> feel that that individual or project would benefit by attending the Australian
> conference then I think that that person should invite them.
> 
> How the hell is an organising committee going to know of all the projects
> and all the people that Australian permaculturists are working with?

I think that knowledge is beyond any conference organising team, Janet. As
an example of your comment, there was mention on this listserv of people
working in ET just a few days ago, and several names came up. And now
there's another Sydney couple being sent by APHEDA in January.

Just shows how difficult it can be to keep tabs on who is doing what. Always
a challenge with a decentralised organisation like permaculture which, of
course, is not a single organisation, rather a single idea around which
individuals and organisations gather.
 
> I don't think our movement or its structure is ready for a hierarchy of
> people who then basically have to spend most of their time "driving the
> machine"

That would call for paid people as the task would be demanding as regards to
updating and maintaining information. A team of dedicated volunteers, at
least.

> If I step on toes and am politically incorrect I apologise for the
> insensitivity and then ask how we can work together from this point.

I don't think you'll change much by being politically correct. Probably best
if people read something they have some kind of objection to, to put it down
to the diversity of people/opinion in permaculture and not take personal
offence where none, probably, was intended.

People get a bit sensitive, defensive, sometimes and think someone is out to
get them when all that is happening is someone is trying to explore an issue
or is throwing up devil's advocate questions to stimulate discussion.

As to your question of how we can all work together, I don't see anything
coming up that could replace the present ad-hoc structure of deliberation on
listservs and at gatherings. In the broad permaculture milieu, we can't
force anyone to do anything... we can apply moral pressure and use reason,
but that's probably about all.

It is for this reason that our present process, accidental and undirected
(or self-directing) it might be, might be described as an informal type of
deliberative democracy based on, collectively, the three ethics then,
individually, a sense of fairness and appropriateness and, functionally,
converstaion and dialogue on permaculture listservs supplemented by personal
dialogue and structured deliberation at conferences.
 
> It has to be one of the blessings of getting older and not needing any more
> best friends....you just damn well do it.

I think you gain friends by being honest and fair. Even when people do need
to let off a little steam on something, if they later make clear that was
what was being done then I doubt if anyone would take offence.

....Russ

 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:36:46 +1100
> From: RussGrayson <info at pacific-edge.info>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] "Australian" Permaculture Convergence?
> To: pil <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <C36B285E.4F67%info at pacific-edge.info>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> 
> I don't think anyone is criticising the APC9 organisers, merely that the
> naming of permaculture conferences brings up the Second Ethic idea of
> permaculture people wanting to be fair and inclusive.
> 
> The New Zealanders, of course, can organise national events all by
> themselves, as has been proven way back to - what was it? - the third
> international convergence? As Robyn mentions, Asian-Pacificans are different
> and not capable of organising a conference of the type under discussion due
> to the reasons she mentions.
> 
>> APC-7 sponsored places for Maori, Aboriginal and Solomon Island
> participants.
>> Since then there?s been a lot happening SE Asia, and in particular
> Indonesia
>> and East Timor, our nearest Asian neighbours, plus all the work in
> Cambodia,
>> Vietnam etc....
> 
> Too true Robyn... like coups and conflict and instabiliity in the Solomons.
> As I mentioned some days ago, the Solomon Islanders that attended the 1997
> conference at Robyn's Nimbin establishment benefited from it. Simply being
> there and talking to other people was a positive outcome.
> 
> In a globalised world we want to expose people to the best of Western
> civilisation and its values - our heritage of science, justice, innovation,
> education and democracy and other good things - and I really believe that
> the intentions, ideas and works of permaculture people can do this quite
> well. 
> 
> Permaculture people don't do this through some lofty,
> quasi-intellectual/academic framework, as the above list might seem to
> suggest, but through their everyday attitudes, actions and speech... by what
> they do and how they behave. They're not perfect, but so what? They try,
> they disagree (and, hopefully, agree to disagree rather than brawling and
> fractionalising like the Left and Right), they also agree on the broad
> points at least. 
> 
> It might be something that after 30 years (next year, measured from the
> publication of Permaculture One) there are no real factions splitting
> permaculture apart... disagreemeents, maybe, but disagreements rationally
> discussed (like the PPP proposal) thanks to this Permaculture International
> listserv aand other communications media available to us.
> 
> Just an odd thought.
> 
> ...Russ Grayson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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