[Pil-pc-oceania] Desert dreaming

Tue Sep 11 14:24:29 EST 2007

Martin specifically stated he was not against reclamation of land.

"It would be impossible to do anything other than replant local endemic species (ie natives) in areas where there is at best sporadic and little rainfall (at the best of times)."

I don't believe that is true - the only thing that would grow in Gaviotas were exotic pines (from Panama so not that exotic but certainly not indigenous). The result was that after many years the native rainforest started growing in the sub-story, but if they hadn't planted exotic they would not have had any trees to start with!  So many plants from other countries grow in our land without any help - and so many natives seem far more frail than imagined, even indigenous ones, perhaps because we have changed the environment so much... ?

"We are desperately trying to address climate change" and "There is a commitment across the board to reafforest"

But only in the native context. Many environmentalists are already incensed that permaculture is utterly damaging to the environment.
We could grow many trees (tagasaste where I am in Victoria and many others if I think about it) that grow themselves very easily and reseed to create forests out of wastelands where the natives don't take so easily or need a fire to sprout.  It would require a lot less human effort to establish tracts of forests and help the climate change agenda, but not the environmental agenda. Always opposing interests!

Please note I am not saying I agree with this approach but it is perhaps one that should be debated. At what cost fixing climate change as rapidly as possible?

"Endemic species have a critically important role to play, as one third of Australia's 777 bird species, and many other plant and animal species face extinction, mainly due to habitat loss."

Many exotic species would also support Australia's fauna - but agree that ensuring the birds and animals have the plants that satisfy their nutritional requirements is very important. I would suggest the habitat loss is primarily through clearfelling forests and thus eliminating corridors to move through, not endemic species.

Perhaps reafforestation with natives may not necessarily be the easiest and/or fastest solution to climate change, soil rehabilitation or greening the desert. I am not qualified to say that, I just notice what sprouts most easily in the undisturbed ground in my region - and it doesn't appear to be the natives! For example at home I have snow gums germinate freely in potting mix in pots left lying around but NONE germinate anywhere else other than the rich soil in the garden beds.

I am simply throwing ideas here because I am interested, not because I know anything!

Linda

From: Deb Guildner [mailto:bocor at bigbutton.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 September 2007 12:16 PM
To: permacultue discussion list
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Desert dreaming

OMG Martin,

Do you know what you are talking about here?

There is a tendency with this (and other) lists for people to post disparaging and frequently ill-informed messages - before even considering proposals properly.
A little less knee jerking would be appreciated.

So, what do you know about worldwide arid land reafforestation projects (which usually follow broadscale landclearing and associated failed agricultural schemes)?

Australia has no deserts, strictly speaking (arid lands are not deserts), but people have been doing their best to create them!  What is a desert, and what are their origins?
It would be impossible to do anything other than replant local endemic species (ie natives) in areas where there is at best sporadic and little rainfall (at the best of times).

Let's get to the real agenda. We are desperately trying to address climate change, and that after a decade (and it seems the beginning of a second decade) where nearly all the rain that is falling across the southern half of our continent is either falling along coastal margins, (missing water storages and agricultural/horticultural zones), or (more useless) out at sea.

Some lateral thinking might be in order. Perhaps you could consider pondering the meaning of the words: 'low rainfall' and start from there!

[From Collins Austn dictionary:
NOUN 1 a region that is devoid or almost devoid of vegetation , esp because of low rainfall.
          2 an uncultivated uninhabited region
          3 a place which lacks some desirable feature or quality; a cultural desert
          4 (modifier) of, or relating to, or like a desert; infertile or desolate
HISTORY C13: from Old French, from Church Latin desertum , from Latin deserete: to abandon, literally; to sever one's links with, from DE + serere, to bind together]

Now, considering that huge tracts of land on this and other continents have suffered the fate of broadscale landclearing, and are presently 'managed' by huge oil-hungry machines, it does not take a genius to conclude that at the withdrawal of the same artificial energy inputs, there will be a collapse of agribusiness as we now know it, and therefore it may be useful (to say the least) to have a strategy for the reclamation of these lands, which may otherwise become vast tracts of useless, unmanageable weeds or worse, dustbowls, Oklahoma style.

That's right: 'In God they trusted, in Kansas they busted'.  Dirt farmers deserted their wasted farmlands in droves for greener pastures in California,  (later) John Steinbeck wrote the Grapes of Wrath, and the unemployed found respite from starvation repairing the land.   Some useful technological innovation was employed too!  It seems that the recession/depression eras have been the only times in Australia when reafforestation projects on any appreciable scale have occurred.

Perhaps it would be wise to begin an examination of these proposals by looking at the historical example of 'desertifed lands' reafforestation which was carried out during the great depression in the southern states of the USA by none other than President Roosevelt, which also provided much needed employment.  This is the kind of thing any forward looking government would have got behind years ago, (if they had only believed that climate change was even a vaguely worrying prospect).

Or, if you prefer, there are numerous Chinese examples.  Or African.
If there are any better ideas floating around out there in cyber etc space, I am all ears!!
But please, let us have no more of this nonsense.

There is a commitment across the board to reafforest, to create carbon sinks, and also as credit for exchange by industries with licenses to pollute, and it is a good time (yesterday was better!) to start addressing the ensuing issues, eg pros and cons of species selection, biodiversity and sustainability (including water).  Australia has a sad record and no enduring history of sustainable management of forests, native OR plantation.  Endemic species have a critically important role to play, as one third of Australia's 777 bird species, and many other plant and animal species face extinction, mainly due to habitat loss.

Ciao for NOW,

Deb

Get a green Tshirt, a carry bag, whatever, and write it on it, front and back:

"Green is the new black:
Give us our planet back!"
...................................................................................

----- Original Message -----
From: Martin Naylor<mailto:martinwnaylor at yahoo.com.au>
To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org<mailto:pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] desert greening

What is this about desert greening, deserts are a vital part of the earths web of life, may be we should start blowing up the mountains and bulldoze the rest to one end tilt the earth back and have a perpetual summer Bill might have had one too many when this popped into his brain cells, i have no problem with reclaiming what has been lost
martin

http://martin.eblogs.com/
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