[Pil-pc-oceania] Pil-pc-oceania Digest, Vol 18, Issue 12 National Permaculture Day
Janet Millington
miltech at bigpond.com
Wed Apr 2 21:30:52 EST 2008
Thanks Graeme,
Your ideas are good and the thinking that by finding a solution to this one
decision problem will create a model that will work for other decisions is
really good. It truly is bottom up designing.
I really think that once we get the date right and the bit of paper to say
it is a bona fide "Day" then individuals and groups will just run with it.
No need to tell people what to do in their own region but just link them
together and share resources and ideas.
To me getting the day fixed and the support services will be all that is
needed and now it may also offer the formation of a structure that can allow
other decisions to be made with as wide an input from permies as possible.
Yeah
Janet
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: National P-Day and the need to go slow and organise
(Graeme George)
2. Re: Pil-pc-oceania Digest, Vol 18, Issue 9
(serendipity at picknowl.com.au)
3. Re: Permaculture Countering Slumburbia (Daniel Rossi)
4. Re: Permaculture Countering Slumburbia - SUGGESTION (Michelle)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:25:34 +1100
From: Graeme George <earthcarepc at virtual.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] National P-Day and the need to go slow
and organise
To: permacultue discussion list
<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
Message-ID: <64782366-05A0-4B80-8F0C-DADC0756BC9A at virtual.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Russ and others
Thanks for the constructive comments on this process.
Russ and John, your posts have stimulated a thought that we may be
able to come up with a national structure for Pc in Australia as an
outcome of this discussion about establishing a national Pc day. Of
course we should be using Pc Principles and methodology in the design
of a national structure and a national Pc day. So yes, let's start
with Use of Small and Slow Solutions. I also suggest we heed
Mollison's principle "make the least change for the greatest possible
effect" (Mollison 1988 p15).
What we have to start with is -
1. Numerous autonomous Regional groups incorporated under State
legislation, eg Permaculture Melbourne Inc, Permaculture North Inc.
(calling these groups Local Regional is a bit confusing).
2. One national body, PIL, established under Federal legislation.
3. Various models of Local Groups operating under the legal protection
of the incorporated Regional associations, eg Yarra Valley PG (PcM),
Hornsby Group (PN).
4. Several emerging networks of autonomous groups, eg Sydney Basin,
Blue Mountains, without formal structure (?), corresponding to the Bio-
regional level of organisation in the PN proposal.
I suggest we don't need any more levels of legally established
entities other than (1) and (2). How Local Groups are established
within Regional Groups and how these Regional Groups network with each
other should be left for the groups involved to decide, but hopefully
informally.
At least for the short term, let's work with PIL as it is currently
set up. All groups can ensure they have a voice in PIL by ensuring
that they have individual members at that level. If having to fork out
two lots of subscriptions is an issue for some individuals, then
Regional Groups can get around this by paying the membership fee for
their "representatives". Members of PIL would then be a mixture of
unaligned members, members of regional groups subscribing to PIL as
individuals, and some members of Regional Groups sponsored by those
groups. All would still be individual members of PIL, with equal
voting rights, so no constitutional problem there.
It has already been suggested that a Committee of PIL be set up to
handle the National Permaculture day. A National Coordinating group
under the PIL structure is a logical way to go about implementing the
idea. However, I suggest that most of the organising needs to be done
at the bio-regional and regional levels as the success of the event
will rely on good promotion through State-based media outlets. Bio-
regional coordinating committees, made up of representatives of Pc
groups in the region, could manage the promotion of a series of
events, with the actual work being done by the participating Regional
and Local groups themselves, so we avoid another hierarchical level in
our national structure, and there would be no additional insurance
issues to have to consider.
Activities to be associated with the event should be the
responsibility of existing incorporated Regional Pc groups (and any
Local Groups operating under their umbrella).
These regional groups would nominate a representative to liaise with
other groups in their bio-region to coordinate activities and
promotion of the day (Russ's convivia).
The bio-regional groups would in turn be represented on the national
coordinating group operating as a Committee of PIL.
Under this model, coordination would occur at Bio-regional and
National levels, but the actual implementation of the activities and
promotion of the events would be carried out by the Regionally-
incorporated bodies. These bodies would fund the promotion and their
profiles would be raised as a result of the promotion of the events.
Yours in Permaculture
Graeme
PS #1 Permaculture Melbourne's Committee informally discussed the PND
proposal last night and came out in favour of a date around the Spring
Equinox.
PS #2 Random House have advised that they are the successors of Corgi
Books, but their records don't go back to 1978 and they can't help
with a publication date for Permaculture One.
On 02/04/2008, at 9:47 AM, RussGrayson wrote:
> It has been interesting to watch the conversation on this list as
> people
> deliberate the idea of a national P-Day, a day to highlight
> permaculture.
>
> Here's a suggestion: Given the potential value of a national P-Day (an
> aspect which so far has attracted little comment), who don't we take
> a leaf
> from the Slow Food and Slow Cities movements and adopt a process for
> this
> topic that we could call something like... Slow Decisions.
>
> What's the hurry? Stephen Covey wrote that society is afflicted by an
> 'urgency addiction', but is that a feature we wish to replicate in
> permaculture? Sure, there are times when rapid decision making is
> warranted,
> but is the P-Day question one of these? In regard to this, I recall
> a person
> telling me about someone who said something about 'small and slow
> solutions'. Is this a time for such solutions or do we need haste? You
> decide.
>
> And, oh yes... there was another quote and it has to do with the
> value of
> this discussion through which we have started to explore the concept
> of a
> National P-Day. It's about the value of putting aside time for
> discussion
> about important topics and it goes something like 'use protracted and
> thoughtful observation rather than protracted and thoughtless
> labor'. Now,
> who was it who said that? And can we equate our conversation with the
> 'observation' mentioned in this passage?
>
> So far, we have discovered that the national calendar is filled with
> days
> for this and days for that and that some times of year are more
> packed with
> events than others. There have been constructive suggestions that
> could
> provide the hook from which to hang national P-Day:
>
> 1. Bill Mollison's birthday
>
> This has some support but not anything like universal support.
> Objections,
> some of them quite strong, allude to the possibiilty that
> celebrating P-Day
> on Bill's birthday could lead to the design system being mistaken
> for a
> cult. That, they say, would discredit permaculture and crash its
> credibility. Others say that David's birthday is an equally valid
> date. Some
> fear a focus around a person simply brings into permaculture the
> 'cult of
> the celebrity' that afflicts our society.
>
> A commentator on the listserv described the adoption of this date as
> potentially divisive.
>
>
> 2. An astronomical event - the equinox
>
> Occurring twice a year when the sun crosses the celestial equator
> and day
> and night are of the same length, these could be seen as 'neutral'
> dates.
>
> As such, they are unlikely to arose bitter opposition. The operative
> question is what is available in planting systems to show people at
> these
> times.
>
>
> 3. Attachment to existing events
>
> How would P-Day go attached to an existing event such as
> international Earth
> Day or the like?
>
>
> 4. The publication date of Permaculture One
>
> This is the book that launched permaculture upon an unsuspecting
> world, and
> for me that makes it a date of potential significance for our
> permaculture
> demimonde. The actual date chosen would presumably be that on which
> it went
> on sale in bookshops, as this would be permaculture's actual launch
> date.
>
> I understand that some permasleuths are attempting to track down
> this date,
> however could I suggest that we look to the month of the launch of
> the book
> rather than the actual date as that would give us some latitude in
> nominating a National P-Day. It could allow us to avoid other,
> similar days
> during the month. As it may turn out, the actual launch is likely to
> fall on
> a week day, necessitating the shifting of National P-Day to the
> previous or
> following weekend. Let's hope the book wasn't launched in the middle
> of the
> Tasmanian winter when only gorse and blackberry thrive in the island
> state's
> gardens (apologies are here offered to Taswegians).
>
>
> SO, WHAT HAPPENS ON NATIONAL P-DAY?
>
> First things first:
>
> 1. Do we want a National P-Day?
>
> 2. If so, when?
>
> 3. If so, what should it's focus become?
>
> 3. If so, then what should it consist of?
>
> Although permaculture conviviums (sorry to steal your word, Slow
> Foods, but
> your term is far better than 'groups') might organise events
> appropriate to
> their locale and although these might differ somewhat across the
> continent,
> it might help to define more or less exactly what a National P-Day (or
> whatever it is to be called) should set out to accomplish.
>
> This would have to be stated in broad terms to accommodate differing
> actions. It would, ideally, be adopted by all conviviums
> participating. As
> an idea, a statement of purpose for National P-Day could go
> something like:
> National P-Day celebrates the permaculture design system's
> contribution to
> social, ecological and economic sustainability and showcases ideas
> for sane
> living in a perplexing world.
>
> That's just an example, not a proposal.
>
> For participating groups (or conviviums), adoption of a set of key
> messages
> about permaculture would guide what it is that they present to the
> public
> while allowing them latitude in what it is that they actually focus
> on for
> the day. These would be negotiated collaboratively on this listserv
> and
> might include key messages like:
>
> a) Permaculture is a system of designing the places in which we live
> - our
> homes, neighourhoods and cities - so that they can persist into the
> future
> as humane, productive places.
>
> b) Permaculture is guided and defined by three ethics: care of
> people; care
> of the Earth; the sharing of surplus goods, resources and ideas.
>
> c) The design and implementation of permaculture projets and works
> is guided
> by sets of principles (ie. by those of David Holmgren, Bill Mollison
> and
> others).
>
> d) Permaculture can be practiced by anyone. Permaculture co-
> originator, Bill
> Mollison, suggests that we start to practice permaculture where we
> live by
> doing what it is within our capability of achieving with the
> resources we
> have. Most of us can choose to:
>
> - conserve water and energy in the home
> - buy our food from those who grow it responsibly or grow our own in
> balcony, kitchen and community gardens
> - invest our surplus funds in ethical enterprises (via social
> investment
> businesses)
> - cooperate with our neighbours on initiatives of mutual and
> neighbourhood
> benefit
> - adopt an open, fair and deliberative approach to making decisions
> that
> affect us all
> - your turn...
>
>
> ORGANISING NATIONAL P-DAY
>
> How would the national day be organised?:
>
> 1. By a national secretariat?
>
> 2. By independent organisations in states and bioregions?
>
> 3. As a day of variable date in different regions, somewhat negating
> the
> 'national' part of P-Day?
>
> Here's an idea that has just jumped into my head. If National P-Day
> is to
> actually be a national day, then we already have a national
> permaculture
> entity that could, were its members willing, assume the organisation
> of the
> thing. It's called Permaculture International and it was the focus of
> renewed energy at APC9. That in itself suggests that it could attain
> the
> capacity to run a national day.
>
> Permaculture International exists as task groups or committees that
> link
> directly to the national board of directors through one of those
> directors
> who participates in the committee. A National P-Day could be organised
> through a National P-Day committee of Permaculture International.
> The only
> requirement of those participating would be membership of Permaculture
> International.
>
> I've prattled on enough so I'll end here.
>
> ...Russ Grayson
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:57:24 +1030
From: serendipity at picknowl.com.au
Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Pil-pc-oceania Digest, Vol 18, Issue 9
To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
Message-ID: <20080402022724.D35BB10962E at mail06.chariot.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed
I too, would really like to know about the possible change of name and the
possible constitutional changes re individuated groups that were being
discussed prior to the convergence.
i couldn't make it either sadly.
Were work groups organised to tackle some of these issues?
thanks, Pam Gurner-Hall
Adelaide
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:27:35 +1100
From: Daniel Rossi <spam at electroteque.org>
Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture Countering Slumburbia
To: nicholas at themediasociety.org, permacultue discussion list
<pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
Message-ID: <C0B4C1AA-ED03-4885-A751-712DA7658CDF at electroteque.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On 02/04/2008, at 1:00 PM, nicholas at themediasociety.org wrote:
>
> hi Kerry
>
> just to clarify: I am talking aboout the stressed new outer
> suburbs.. the heartland of un-sustainable living.. .
>
> not the inner city urban elite or the super-annuated semi-retirees
> in the affluent, leafy, older suburbs.
>
> and the problem is way bigger than housing affordability, we are
> facing potentially a New Great Depression, I wish I was overstating
> it, but I am not
>
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/24f73610-c91e-11dc-9807-000077b07658.html
>
http://news.google.com.au/news?q=new+great+depression&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=
org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn
>
> something like 30% of Australians do not have mortgages and so
> cannot understand the stress, but the majority are heaviliy
> indebted, at record levels
>
> the question is, will progressive movements such as permaculture get
> active and provide solutions
>
> http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080218/klein
Nicholas and others. I am still new, so I would like to know how
permaculture is possible to help 'stressed' outer suburbs. Do you mean
food production, helping with mortgage repayments, helping with
interest rate rises ? I have walked down 'sustainability street' in St
Claire in Western Sydney and I didn't really find anything sustainable
about it, but someone from Perm West might want to enlighten me on
that :\.
As for old leafy suburbs , even though there is strong active groups
in most of these, how is it that they are sustainable ?
I believe I am finding to retrofit current homes into something quite
neat widespread is too costly and not possible where people are
struggling with repayments. Regulations should have copped onto it
20-30 years ago and started building more wisely, to me they just look
like they've been slapped together. I always tend to hear things like
'people could give up buying a luxury car for a solar power kit' but
who has the money to begin with to actually buy luxury cars ?
Are you meaning removal of private ownership, and things like solar
power equipment are shared evenly within the local area and not one
person owns it ?
I do think we should be looking at the indebted poor, homeless and
unemployed first as they are the forgotten population in my views. I
just see so much job creation in so many things permaculture or that
things have already been discussed here.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:39:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michelle <highmichelle at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture Countering Slumburbia -
SUGGESTION
To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
Message-ID: <317528.85048.qm at web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Keep thinking out loud Nicholas!! :)
I'm sure this sort of information/resources would be welcome by local
permaculture groups- to integrate into their operations over time. Maybe
we'll also have to look at helping local permaculture groups access/use
emerging technologies- in particular for those groups not so computer
literate. If people on the ground arent using the websites/internet- for
various reasons- we may need to support this learning process. Eg. Roberto
Perez said alot of people in Cuba dont use/have access to the internet.
However certainly Australia doesnt have this issue ;)
I agree new technologies, including the type of sites you have registered as
domains, have alot of potential to bring people together- to help develop
sustainable communities worldwide.
I'm sure the newly formed Permaculture International Ltd (PIL)
Communications Sub-committee- will support you and your ideas- as well as
bringing new ones.
Hope all are well- its a very windy day here in Tas! Blowing cobwebs away :)
Michelle
----- Original Message ----
From: "nicholas at themediasociety.org" <nicholas at themediasociety.org>
To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
Cc: nicholas at themediasociety.org
Sent: Wednesday, 2 April, 2008 11:51:51 AM
Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture Countering Slumburbia - SUGGESTION
hi all
As you know, the suburban, middle class, mortgage-belt majority are under
great stress from increased interest rates and mounting debts.
Mortgage defaults, bankruptcies and home reposessions are at historical
highs.
There are very real signs that we are seeing the end of the suburbs as we
know them. But, anyone who has been to Village Homes in Davis California,
knows it's certainly possible to have ecoburbs. the suburban equivalent to
an ecovillage.
The Next Slum?The subprime crisis is just the tip of the iceberg.
Fundamental changesin American life may turn today's McMansions into
tomorrow's tenements.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/subprime
In these circumstances, it makes great sense for the Permaculture movement
to seek ways to offer solutions to this suburban mainstream
Ideas:
The PermaBlitz focusses on poor and at-risk outer suburbs, perhaps with
immigrant communities used to gardeningan ecological suburbs effort is
co-ordinated using this network and software as a template, host
http://www.nycstreets.org/ or http://www.streetsblog.org/
local Permaculture groups from affluent suburbs make greater efforts to
reach-out to poorer neiggborhoodsstronger advocacy of suburban community
gardens and application of permaculture principalsmore local permaculture
activism in the suburbsI've registered a collection of domains, and been
doing research into business models and technology.
EcoBurb.org - ecological suburbs website and movement
EcoBurb.TV - see prototype on www.EcoBurb.TVPermaculture.TV - online video
of permaculturePermacultureGroups.org - a local permaculture groups social
networkSustainabilityCommons.org - a creative commons of sustainabilty
resourcesI've actually collected about 150 domains, but these are the most
relevant
perhaps we could simply declare Permaculture Week by a mass day of
Permaculture Action, an Australian Permaculture Blitz. Its a lot more
powerful and meaningful than Earth Hour.
anyway, I hope to have more soon, just thinking out loud
anyone interested, let me know or post to the list
Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail
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