[Pil-pc-oceania] Zero carbon, zero waste, car-free city in the desert

[Gnoll 110]

>It's a con. Hydrogen is not not not zero-carbon. It is a very  
>inefficient storage device for electricity. CO2 will have been made  
>during generating the electricity, and during using it to electrolyse  
>water to form the hydrogen. Then there will be losses during  
>transport and storage. H2 is such a small molecule that it can make  
>its way through many apparently solid walls, never mind joints.
> The fuel cell itself is efficient enough, but as with electric  
>power, the losses are before the consumer gets the energy.
>:(
>Bob


Partly right.

Both electricity and hydrogen are energy distribution/storage methods. Neither are 'generations' methods like solar, wind, fossil fuels etc. 

Being very meta here, solar, wind fossil fuels are ultimately only distribution/storage methods for nuclear fusion in the sun at some past time. Ultimately E=mc^2 is true ;)

All systems leak energy or matter (see the 3 laws of thermodynamics). Is an energy leak bad? Isn't just a by-product that we could use for some localize benefit. Isn't permaculture about  putting a 'centres' that use heat next to 'centres' that leaks heat? I use 'centre' here as Christopher Alexander uses the term in his 'The Nature of Order' texts.


Gnoll110


       
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