[Pil-pc-oceania] reasons behind NPD preferences
steve_burns at wvi.org
steve_burns at wvi.org
Tue May 6 20:06:27 EST 2008
Dear all,
I agree with Pam - let each key 'day' be distinct...and would add the
following reasons:
1. wanting Permaculture to be non-partisan and open to those at either ends
of the political spectrum, it isn't good marketing to attach National
Permaculture Day (NPD) to such a "Left" day,
2. we've missed it for this year and if we want to celebrate 30 yrs of
Permaculture (1978-2008) but can't because we didn't discuss the date until
after the event, then we're in such disarray that the Day would be a bit
open to mockery...
There still seem to be big gaps between a few people on the date options...
I was initially pleased to see Graeme attempting to return to the
discussion and present a summary of the views expressed, but the strength
of the rejection sent by Penny reminds me that gathering consensus amongst
such a diverse community is often going to be a challenge. Voting and
majority decisions are ways of reaching a decision but in an 'opt out'
virtual community, the likelihood of true consensus emerging is only
possible over a lengthy period and after discussions in which people state
not just their opinions or preferred options, but their reasons for being
for or against certain options.
It feels to me as though people generally share a sense that a Permaculture
Day on the same date across Australia would have far more impact that
different Days in different states or bioregions.
If this is the case, then maybe we could each say a little more about why
we prefer a particular season, or even why we don't like a particular day.
Doing this might not bring 100% agreement, but it is more likely to
persuade those who are open to different options. I apologise that my
initial response to this thread was too flippant and didn't contribute to
building consensus. Let me try to rectify that a little by giving some
reasons for my current preferences:
find a day we can all agree on [to create national awareness over time
and allow simultaneous events across the country]
try to stick to the same day/weekend every year [although I take
Graeme's point that we could do something to celebrate 30yrs of PC this
year then fix on a different date for years thereafter]
make the focus national promotion of Permaculture and a collective
effort to inform the general public and introduce them to exemplary
demonstrations sites [and then have a great party together afterwards!]
avoid a day on anyone's birthday. [I think we should be celebrating the
concept and the movement, which can involve recognition of key figures
in the movement, but shouldn't revolve around just one.]
avoid a day which is already linked to another
concept/movement/celebration [e.g. May Day]
select a day which is strongly connected to the cycle of the seasons as
this reinforces the link between Permaculture and natural design/systems
[although I recognise that our concept of the seasons is still one
rooted in European labels and notions.. and that the climate
conditions/seasons on the one day are going to be very different across
and up and down our country!]
given the above, Spring (planting) or Autumn (harvest) festivals seem
the most likely to capture broad public attention and media space.
[although there are vague memories or cultural associations with such
festivals, there isn't a strong link which would dilute the impact of
NPD, and our Day could be a revival where we leverage those latent
associations and redefine them in useful ways]
Harvest festivals make for better photo opportunities, but Spring
festivals are more likely to capture people's urge to 'plant something'
after Winter, so I lean toward Spring as a time more likely to be a
catalyst to action - and this reveals one of my priorities, I suppose;
to use NPD as a change lever rather than as an internal celebration
event (although it can certainly function on both levels)
well that might be enough for now - I hope it is useful and perhaps others
could share some of their thinking?
cheers
Steve
pamorgan at netspace
.net.au
Sent by: To
pil-pc-oceania-bo pil-pc-oceania at lists.permaculturein
unces at lists.perma ternational.org
cultureinternatio cc
nal.org
Subject
Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] May Day
05 May 2008 11:37
PM
Please respond to
permacultue
discussion list
<pil-pc-oceania at l
ists.permaculture
international.org
>
May Day is celebrated as International Workers Day throughout the world,
except
in the US and Canada ( a relic of the cold war). At the recent May Day
march and
rally in Melbourne we received messages of solidarity from groups
representing
the rights of workers throughout Asia Pacific and Latin American regions.
It is already a day of celebration with a distinct theme, that brings
activists
in social and environmental justice together. I think we should respect
this and
leave it as is. There are another 364 days in the year to choose from to
develop
a new day of celebration of permaculture.
Pam Morgan
Quoting pil-pc-oceania-request at lists.permacultureinternational.org:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Permaculture Day (Steve Hart)
> 2. Re: National Permaculture Day (Janet Millington)
> 3. Re: National Permaculture Day (Bruce Zell)
> 4. Re: National Permaculture Day (Tamara Griffiths)
> 5. Re: From little things big things grow (Tamara Griffiths)
> 6. Re: From little things big things grow (Daniel Rossi)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:15:04 +0100
> From: "Steve Hart" <Steve.Hart at hyderconsulting.com>
> Subject: [Pil-pc-oceania] Permaculture Day
> To: <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID:
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<90C81959988F654383E112A3E4B9FF98058115D2 at HC-UKR-WX-MX-06.ukr.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I like your passion Penny...but we must change our view slightly to
> realise that "Saving the Planet" is no longer appropriate for the planet
> can live quite happily without us. It is more about saving the species
> "Man"
>
> Steve Hart
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:21:05 +1000
> From: "Janet Millington" <miltech at bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] National Permaculture Day
> To: <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <000601c8ae80$951a12e0$0100000a at miltechmain>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Penny
> Thanks for the passionate discussion points. I am easy with any day
really
> and I think if there are individuals and a large group who want to
explore
> the 1st of May which they believe is the best time and this gives them
> energy because of their commitment, I say the rest of us should release
the
> reins and let them charge ahead.
>
> If on the other hand some other individuals and a group are passionate
> about another date and have the ideas, energy and resources.... then we
have
> ourselves a choice.
>
> Maybe we should all call for expressions of interest.....anyone with a
date
> and ideas should put them up to their local group and then to the
> Permaculture Community through as many of the networks as possible.
>
> Perhaps we should set a date for the end of the expressions of interest
and
> then vote or go with the one with the most energy and resources behind
it.
>
> Surely people could investigate by end of June so on the first of July we
> could have a decision.
>
>
> Maybe this is a "process' that we could use?????
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 18:56:59 +1000
> From: "Bruce Zell" <bruce at permaculturenq.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] National Permaculture Day
> To: "'permacultue discussion list'"
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <002001c8ae8d$fa82d880$0401a8c0 at BRUCE01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello Penny Janet Graham & All
> I agree that if a date is set for the end of June as Janet has suggested
> then a decision has to be arrived at. One thing for sure if we can all
agree
> on that part of the process we will have a National Permaculture Day.
Right
> now we could stand back a step or two take a deep breath and have a good
> look at a reasonable process and go with it, taking care of each other on
> the way. Any day will do me but I will put it to the Permaculture Cairns
> Group. Issues like this will come and go there have been plenty, there
will
> be plenty more.. Go well everyone
>
> Very Best Wishes
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pil-pc-oceania-bounces at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> [mailto:pil-pc-oceania-bounces at lists.permacultureinternational.org] On
> Behalf Of Janet Millington
> Sent: Monday, 5 May 2008 5:21 PM
> To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] National Permaculture Day
>
> Hi Penny
> Thanks for the passionate discussion points. I am easy with any day
really
> and I think if there are individuals and a large group who want to
explore
> the 1st of May which they believe is the best time and this gives them
> energy because of their commitment, I say the rest of us should release
the
> reins and let them charge ahead.
>
> If on the other hand some other individuals and a group are passionate
> about another date and have the ideas, energy and resources.... then we
have
> ourselves a choice.
>
> Maybe we should all call for expressions of interest.....anyone with a
date
> and ideas should put them up to their local group and then to the
> Permaculture Community through as many of the networks as possible.
>
> Perhaps we should set a date for the end of the expressions of interest
and
> then vote or go with the one with the most energy and resources behind
it.
>
> Surely people could investigate by end of June so on the first of July we
> could have a decision.
>
>
> Maybe this is a "process' that we could use?????
>
> Janet
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 09:43:51 +0000
> From: Tamara Griffiths <scarletwoman at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] National Permaculture Day
> To: permacultue discussion list
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY120-W358CC8D66AD3ED3C05B07BCBD70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Did like spring equinox, but really, don't mind the date.
> Good on everyone who is pushing this onward.
> Keep up the good work. As soon as the Cardinia Baw Baw group is formed,
we
> can let you know what we think.
> love T
> _________________________________________________________________
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> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 09:58:33 +0000
> From: Tamara Griffiths <scarletwoman at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] From little things big things grow
> To: permacultue discussion list
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY120-W1428B2CE3EA7AA69AE416BCBD70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I think that getting traditional owner's permission for all development
is a
> bloody fantastic idea.
>
> Many traditional owner groups all over Australia have formed incorporated
or
> other bodies and they can generally be found by contacting you state's
> Aboriginal Affairs department, or Land Council, or checking out a
language
> map,
>
http://www.aiatsis.gov.au/aboriginal_studies_press/aboriginal_wall_map/map_page
>
> My local traditional owners are Wurrundjeri, Bunnerong and Kaurnai.
>
> Pretty easy to find out, really. We just need the will.
>
> I am part of admire Get Up for their work towards reconcilliation.
>
> Love Tamara
>
>
> > From: jedd at progsoc.org
> > To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> > Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 15:25:58 +1000
> > Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] From little things big things grow
> >
> > On Sat, 3 May 2008, Daniel Rossi wrote:
> > > When do we get laws that
> > > every development proposal gets approval through the traditional land
> > > owners of the land.
> >
> > Hi Daniel,
> >
> > How do you [propose to] identify this demographic?
> >
> > Jedd.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
> > Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> > http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
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> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:49:19 +1000
> From: Daniel Rossi <spam at electroteque.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] From little things big things grow
> To: permacultue discussion list
> <pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org>
> Message-ID: <A9D04C9F-9407-4A76-AC4F-A03BEDBBC844 at electroteque.org>
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>
> Here is an article on a similar topic, mostly regarding multinational
> corporations profiteering on stolen land, and things they can do to be
> responsible. Well im hoping there is suggestions of that in the text.
>
> http://www.caer.org.au/publications/seeriskindigenouspeoples.pdf
>
> So instead of corrupt developers 'donating' to just as corrupt
> government officials to approval just as corrupt and damaging
> proposals they will have to get permission from the people who are the
> real land lords. I have no idea how body structure of such a thing can
> be setup as they too could be just bribed off like everyone else but
> it's a start. It's their land, and people need to aknowledge that via
> laws setup if anything ? Giving ownership of the land back to them is
> what I call reconciling, we're just still living off the spoils of an
> evil past and I feel ashamed of that part.
>
> If only during the 1800/1900's they left our indigenous neighbours
> alone and let them carry on their lives as usual and adapt and not try
> to heavily assimilate them into an alien culture. Even during the 100
> years of war period they gave them an area on the ranches which were
> squatted and used to be their homes so they can work and go back to
> their mob. They are a mob culture it's like telling people they cannot
> watch tv or own cars anymore because they have to work 24/7 and catch
> busses and trains, something like that :)
>
> On 05/05/2008, at 7:58 PM, Tamara Griffiths wrote:
>
> > I think that getting traditional owner's permission for all
> > development is a bloody fantastic idea.
> >
> > Many traditional owner groups all over Australia have formed
> > incorporated or other bodies and they can generally be found by
> > contacting you state's Aboriginal Affairs department, or Land
> > Council, or checking out a language
>
map,http://www.aiatsis.gov.au/aboriginal_studies_press/aboriginal_wall_map/map_page
> >
> > My local traditional owners are Wurrundjeri, Bunnerong and Kaurnai.
> >
> > Pretty easy to find out, really. We just need the will.
> >
> > I am part of admire Get Up for their work towards reconcilliation.
> >
> > Love Tamara
> >
> >
> > > From: jedd at progsoc.org
> > > To: pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> > > Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 15:25:58 +1000
> > > Subject: Re: [Pil-pc-oceania] From little things big things grow
> > >
> > > On Sat, 3 May 2008, Daniel Rossi wrote:
> > > > When do we get laws that
> > > > every development proposal gets approval through the traditional
> > land
> > > > owners of the land.
> > >
> > > Hi Daniel,
> > >
> > > How do you [propose to] identify this demographic?
> > >
> > > Jedd.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
> > > Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> > > http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
> >
> > Explore the seven wonders of the world Learn more!
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pil-pc-oceania mailing list
> > Pil-pc-oceania at lists.permacultureinternational.org
> > http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/mailman/listinfo/pil-pc-oceania
>
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